[DJkillos]

Do you consider the children of immigrants born in Europe to be European?

[adverwork]

As long as you don't look like the average ethnic person in your country, you will never be fully accepted as 'European'. No matter how open-minded the people are, you will always be seen as a foreigner.

[UMATURLIN]

Depends. For instance a negro we always shows up too late, he might be a nice person, I know it's due to his black subculture. Race is also cultural, inevitably.

[Accor$314]

I consider Europeans as a separate race. But as to culture, attitude and way of life, probably they would be Europeans, but at the same time Europe is a really diverse and we Europeans look at each other as to different people.

[Aniplinipsync]

No but i don't see what the big deal is. I have good friends who are immigrant or immigrant descendants.
I would never be chinese if i moved to China either.

[suilusargaino]

No, never!

[lalpphilalk]

From the legal part most European countries (i think all from the EU) use the "iuris sanguis" system to determinate the citizenship. It means it doesn't matter where you were born but what is the nationality of your parents.

[AccusaJalsBub]

Lmao

[Mowselelew]

For me saying one is european evokes the concept of race, therefore: no

[marketheal]

It is a bit weird, but I think that they may be french or british, but not really european.

It depends on the nation as well, for me a black man British or French looks more credible, but as a German or Russian not really, probably its down to longer existence. Probably after couple generations when people get used to anyone foreign now would be full european?

[Annyllop21]

For me saying one is european evokes the concept of race, therefore: no

So European evokes the concept of race to you but Caucasoid doesn't?

[Kissntell]

Yes i would consider them European in terms of nationality, citizenship and culture/personal identity. (assuming their parents integrated) Whether i would regard them as 'indigenous' or of 'native title' is a different story all together, but i have long believed any first generation born person should experience the same rights as multiple-generations Europeans since they do not know necessarily any better.

[Fellionas]

in america,if you were born here,your american,plain and simple..i guess because there really isnt a native population to speak of left so its all immigrants anyways,there is no set ethnicity like in european countries where they have different and distinct ethnic groups that are the majority of the nation and have been for many many years,where as in america everyone is so mixed up they havent really retained their heritage and the culture that comes with it,so its just one huge melting pot of different races and cultures and shit..so if an englishman went to china and had kids there,they would be chinese but ethnically wouldnt and therefore always seen as foreigner,not so in america.

really the only requirement to be considered as an american is can you speak english without an accent.one of my best friends was born in jalisco mexico and i would never question her americaness..

[allachakb]

No but i don't see what the big deal is. I have good friends who are immigrant or immigrant descendants.
I would never be chinese if i moved to China either.

Yeah but it's not bad when the Chinese do it. It's only bad when Europeans do it.

[Yifnvmzp]

No, they are not

[AttableBewNaw]

i voted no, but only because when you say european i think about biology..in terms of culture etc i would say yes..in Norway people often discriminate against people whom are not born here (mostly in the job marked), while those born here (or came as children) are seen as Norwegian to a much larger degree..adopted Koreans are common here and they are seen as Norwegian..but not as ethnic Norwegians...

its not the same as America simply because Europe is much more complicated... in comparison; i dont think american immigrants would call themselves native Americans would they?

[SAUNDERSAN]

All these kind of discussions are poisoned with issues lying underneath, between lines and around.

If it was a simple question of ethnicity or geography, the answer would be easy, but its so many things involved- so the answer may be different in different contexts.

[RSAccountssy]

i voted no, but only because when you say european i think about biology..in terms of culture etc i would say yes..in Norway people often discriminate against people whom are not born here (mostly in the job marked), while those born here (or came as children) are seen as Norwegian to a much larger degree..adopted Koreans are common here and they are seen as Norwegian..but not as ethnic Norwegians...

its not the same as America simply because Europe is much more complicated... in comparison; i dont think american immigrants would call themselves native Americans would they?

Funny. Now tell me, why do you want Turks to assimilate if you are never gonna accept them as ethnic Norwegians? Do you remember the thread about Turks in Europe who didn't want to assimilate? It's really amusing to see how people want immigrants to lose their identity, language and culture but at the same time agree that they would never accept them as ethnic Norwegian/European.
Do you now understand why Turks are pro integration but anti assimilation?

Immigrants (Turks) should learn the language of the country they live in and adjust themselves to the culture of that country, but at the same time, they should never lose their identity and native language.

[texbrease]

Funny. Now tell me, why do you want Turks to assimilate if you are never gonna accept them as ethnic Norwegians? Do you remember the thread about Turks in Europe who didn't want to assimilate? It's really amusing to see how people want immigrants to lose their identity, language and culture but at the same time agree that they would never accept them as ethnic Norwegian/European.

I understand your grief and I could even say I kind of share it, but tough, c'est la vie.
I will tell you some anecdote, its about soemthing else but it is the same mechanism.

Probably you know Metallica. You know that this band has two "originals" members and two who joined after couple of years. Ten years on and one of members, the bass player, resigned, mainly due to the fact that he was treated as "new" after being 10 years in the band. Twenty years on and there's Kirk Hammett, who had been in the band nearly from the start and after those years guess what- he is still the "new" member, he is the one who has little to say, cause he is "new". Metallica understood this after a while and tried to repair it, anyway, I think it is how it works.

[Hamucevasiop]

Most real-life europeans consider them to be european, specially if they dont hold views such as muslims or behave like nomads such as gypsies.. but in phora world most members wont consider non european descendants in europe to be european just because they dont match the physical appearance of the native population, yet people here aren't quite representative.

---------- Post added 2011-03-15 at 15:07 ----------

No but i don't see what the big deal is. I have good friends who are immigrant or immigrant descendants.
I would never be chinese if i moved to China either.

Sure thats the case cause immigration is a relatively new term in most european countries, but would be a chinese guy who has never been to china ..and who has been born and raised in portugal.. speaking portuguese and not knowing anything about china and its culture..neither ther parents would speak it cause they already were born in portugal too, have the right to consider himself a chinese person before than being accepted as portuguese?

Is it a matter of physical appearance or not? would it change if it were a southern european looking argentinean or brazilian who would move to portugal and would pass unnoticed among the portuguese population? (considering he and his parents also would have been born in portugal and that the closest link to his mother country would be grandparents which are already dead , thus he is completly alien to his ancestral lineage..)