[GogaMegaPis]

I understand your grief and I could even say I kind of share it, but tough, c'est la vie.
I will tell you some anecdote, its about soemthing else but it is the same mechanism.

Probably you know Metallica. You know that this band has two "originals" members and two who joined after couple of years. Ten years on and one of members, the bass player, resigned, mainly due to the fact that he was treated as "new" after being 10 years in the band. Twenty years on and there's Kirk Hammett, who had been in the band nearly from the start and after those years guess what- he is still the "new" member, he is the one who has little to say, cause he is "new". Metallica understood this after a while and tried to repair it, anyway, I think it is how it works.

Look, I totally understand why people don't accept immigrants as ethnic Europeans (Norwegian, German, Dutch etc.). But it's the hypocrisy I don't get. Why do people want us to assimilate if they are never gonna accept as one of them? There was a thread going on about this subject a few weeks ago, and most people expected from the Turks to assimilate. Evon was one of those people, but now he is saying that he would not accept immigrant kids as ethnic Norwegians. Do you see the contradictory here?

This is one of the reasons why I don't want Turks to assimilate. Integration? Yes. Assimilation? Hell no.

---------- Post added 2011-03-15 at 15:15 ----------

Is it a matter of physical appearance or not? would it change if it were a southern european looking argentinean or brazilian who would move to portugal and would pass unnoticed among the portuguese population? (considering he and his parents also would have been born in portugal and that the closest link to his mother country would be grandparents which are already dead , thus he is completly alien to his ancestral lineage..)

Yes, in most cases it is.

[Rurcextedutty]

Swarthy wogs will never be European.

[romalama]

Swarthy wogs will never be European.

So what are you gonna do about those ethnic European swarthy wogs?

[Yessaniloas]

have they accepted the native culture-language-religion? would they go and die in war to defend the country like the natives would do? if yes then yes

[allvideO]

Swarthy wogs will never be European.

the same could say a person coming from non-uralid influenced countries about latvian immigrants.

Its pretty plain and childish complain about swarthy wogs.. otherwise you should get rid off from inhabitants of countries in southern europe/balcans and most of france and western turkey( the latter who might be technically european) and repopulate those places with lighter individuals.

[apannamma]

They're not. Maybe some day in the future they will be, but as they're not assimilated, but have their own culture, and associate only with their own - as long as it's like that, they're gonna be an alien element, not Europeans. Some people talk about integration, but true integration requires a level of assimilation, in the sence of accepting certain values and not to mention LAWS.

The only way true integration can happen is through intermarrying. If that doesn't happen, it's because of some kind of resentment, and frankly, you shouldn't move to a country you resent, unless you're an idiot.

I think I've written this a lot of times, it's the (mostly) immigrants who have no interest in any kind of integration whatsoever. Sure, some are integrated, why they're vievew as traitors by the others, and sometimes they're killed or beaten. It happens. which is why most people are in check.

It depends on the origin of the immigrant, though.

Only ME immigrants are an issue. Nobody else are.

[SM9WI8oI]

They're not. Maybe some day in the future they will be, but as they're not assimilated, but have their own culture, and associate only with their own - as long as it's like that, they're gonna be an alien element, not Europeans. Some people talk about integration, but true integration requires a level of assimilation, in the sence of accepting certain values and not to mention LAWS.

I do agree with it.

But what makes a person ethnic or not? afterall europeans also werent forever inhabitating the continent.. only since 30.000 years ago. Should a matter of time determines who are the real ethnic native people? Or are the builders of the current dominant culture of an area the ones who deserve to be called as native people? (such thing that happens in countries like the US.. and Australia) where they havent been for longer period of time than the natives but they are living under a culture and society created by themselves.

[draigenia]

Funny. Now tell me, why do you want Turks to assimilate if you are never gonna accept them as ethnic Norwegians?

i didnt say never, who knows what the future holds?

Look, I totally understand why people don't accept immigrants as ethnic Europeans (Norwegian, German, Dutch etc.). But it's the hypocrisy I don't get. Why do people want us to assimilate if they are never gonna accept as one of them? There was a thread going on about this subject a few weeks ago, and most people expected from the Turks to assimilate. Evon was one of those people, but now he is saying that he would not accept immigrant kids as ethnic Norwegians. Do you see the contradictory here?

This is one of the reasons why I don't want Turks to assimilate. Integration? Yes. Assimilation? Hell no.

its not contradiction as far as i see, as long as ethnicity is inter connected with biology one can never become something without sharing atleast part of that biology.. so for a Turk to become a ethnic Norwegian the person would have to have atleast one ancestor who was Norwegian.

i want all immigrants to assimilate in culture and biology, not just in culture.. that means that over time they should allow (the community of immigrants) to intermarry with the local populous..thus becoming part of the local populous over time..

also, if one emigrates to a country i would expect the person to assimilate as much as possible, but i do not expect first generation immigrants to give up their former identity 100% as this is impossible, but luckily their children are one step closer and their children again will probably be 100% Norwegian in terms of assimilation of culture and value views etc..or something along those lines..

[euylvaygdq]

So what are you gonna do about those ethnic European swarthy wogs?

Good one

[Agrisalia]

I share the roman concept of citizenship, then yes. I don't mind if their race, language or culture is different from the bulk of the population, they are european citizens as me.

[KlaraNovikoffa]

In terms of genetics and ethnicity, no.

---------- Post added 2011-03-15 at 12:42 ----------

I share the roman concept of citizenship, then yes. I don't mind if their race, language or culture is different from the bulk of the population, they are european citizens as me.

Citizens yes.

---------- Post added 2011-03-15 at 12:43 ----------

Swarthy wogs will never be European.

?????

[Enrivaanonock]

In terms of genetics and ethnicity, no.

---------- Post added 2011-03-15 at 12:42 ----------



Citizens yes.

---------- Post added 2011-03-15 at 12:43 ----------



?????

Yep but some might might see british immigration as dangerous as non-european one..considering that after a few generations it might lower considerably the average levels of beauty in any continental european country...

[hubua990]

Is it a matter of physical appearance or not? would it change if it were a southern european looking argentinean or brazilian who would move to portugal and would pass unnoticed among the portuguese population? (considering he and his parents also would have been born in portugal and that the closest link to his mother country would be grandparents which are already dead , thus he is completly alien to his ancestral lineage..)

Physical appearence helps blending in but isn't everything. The southern european looking brazilian or argentinian would pass completely unnoticed if they lost their foreign accent. The only thing that could give them away as foreigners would be a possible foreign surname.
If immigrants lose all ties to their country of origin and adopt the local culture and language (including the local accent) then they are as local as the next person. If apart from that, they look like the locals, then it's even easier to assimilate.

[Nikkkola]

So what are you gonna do about those ethnic European swarthy wogs?

haha ashina ftw!

[Flefebleaft]

Do you consider the children of immigrants born in Europe to be European?

No. For me a black person (for example) born in Europe will always be an African, even if their parents, grandparents etc. were born in Europe as well.

[LarryRda]

I don't consider anyone "European" from the first place. But someone with both parents being biologically non-Swedish who is born in Sweden is not Swedish.

[Voliscietle]

haha ashina ftw!

So what are you gonna do about those ethnic European swarthy wogs?

Go ahead try to include the wogs in the discussion and you will probably end in the middle of the crossfire.

[masterboyz]

A complex question, and it deserves a complex answer (not least of all because in the coming decades it will be very important in terms of cohesion in Europe). I think it depends, if you can fit in then you're part of the culture and therefore European.

My own philosophy basically involves applying the premise that, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck then it's a duck. There is no point applying anything else, you cannot investigate the distant ancestry of the average person you see on the street, you judge whether or not he is British/German/French/Polish etc by how he looks & how he behaves. Everyone does this with people they don't know intimately.

So, a man of Indian extraction who is third generation in the UK but carries an Indian forename and surname, prays at a Sikh or Hindu place of worship, speaks with accented English and prefers bhangra music to whatever the preferred music of the day is will not be European or British in any sense of the word other than in terms of nationality (i.e. a British passport and the status of a citizen of an EU member state).

However someone whose foreign ancestry cannot be discerned from their phenotype, name, mannerisms, religion or accent is a different matter- to all intents and purposes we all fit into this category more or less (your non-European ancestry may be 5% of your DNA or 0.1% but the chances are that it will be there in some form), therefore it would be dishonest and arbitrary to exclude such people.

[Aleenkagirlla]

Go ahead try to include the wogs in the discussion and you will probably end in the middle of the crossfire.

Lol. You know she's right. That guys reaction just didn't make any sense

[u2ZQGC6b]

of course not

europe to europeans