[LICraig]

i have been so curios of their orgins and who they are related too?

[WomanBreast40356]

Dravidian speakers are obviously a mix of Caucasian Indids and Veddoid Aboriginals, if you're asking what they really were before the mix-up happened, I would say dark Caucasians and probably the same stock as the ancient Elamites.

[Theorsell]

Dravidian speakers are obviously a mix of Caucasian Indids and Veddoid Aboriginals, if you're asking what they really were before the mix-up happened, I would say dark Caucasians and probably the same stock as the ancient Elamites.

Indeed, Akkadians scattered (through deportation) these in the Levant, their descendants are now found in the Druze where L (M20+) peaks in their communities (especially around Karmel) before reaching a vanishingly low frequency as soon as one steps away from their community.

[Gcromqgb]

I dont think Caucasians/Caucasoids is an appropiate term for Dravidians, wouldnt it be the other way Around that Elamites are Partially dravidian.

[JJoon077]

^^Nope: The same stock, Proto-Harappan/Elamo-Dravidian.

[boanuatiguali]

I dont think Caucasians/Caucasoids is an appropiate term for Dravidians, wouldnt it be the other way Around that Elamites are Partially dravidian.

Nope. It's hypothesised that the original Dravidians came from Iran.

People use Dravidian incorrectly to refer to ugly blacked out Australoids. The original Dravidians weren't like this.

Dravidian shouldn't be used to refer to the aboriginals of India.

[Cricequorie]

I dont think Caucasians/Caucasoids is an appropiate term for Dravidians, wouldnt it be the other way Around that Elamites are Partially dravidian.

Dravidian is a language term, not a race term, assuming that the original Dravidian speakers were the population of the Indus Valley, I'm guessing they looked like dark Caucasians and they were probably the second group that migrated to India after the Aboriginal looking ones.

In South India today you see these looks, we see darker Indians but some of them clearly look more Caucasian than anything, and based on the language comparison apperantly Elamite resembles Dravidian languages, makes sense since the regions are actually right next to one another and being from the same stock makes sense, in fact I think the Sumerians might also be similar but that's a whole separate story.

[JEWELMARGY]

Dravidian is a language term, not a race term, assuming that the original Dravidian speakers were the population of the Indus Valley, I'm guessing they looked like dark Caucasians and they were probably the second group that migrated to India after the Aboriginal looking ones.

In South India today you see these looks, we see darker Indians but some of them clearly look more Caucasian than anything, and based on the language comparison apperantly Elamite resembles Dravidian languages, makes sense since the regions are actually right next to one another and being from the same stock makes sense, in fact I think the Sumerians might also be similar but that's a whole separate story.

Thanks for this explanation, i am aware of the connection, my argument was more whethe the Dravidian and Elamite languages arose in southern india and then moved up. Instead of from Iran to India

[KeestRast]

Thanks for this explanation, i am aware of the connection, my argument was more whethe the Dravidian and Elamite languages arose in southern india and then moved up. Instead of from Iran to India

Not likely. I think India was full of Aboriginals, then the Dravidians from Iran came and replaced them to certain extent in the North, and Aboriginals retreated to the south. After some thousand years after this, then there came the Indo-Aryans and in turn displaced the Dravidian speakers.

[invasuant]

The Veddid-Australoid looking people could be associated with H (M69) bearers while the linguistic/cultural role of Elamo-Dravidian was mainly brought by L (M20).

[hechicxxrr]

Thanks for this explanation, i am aware of the connection, my argument was more whethe the Dravidian and Elamite languages arose in southern india and then moved up. Instead of from Iran to India

We don't know for sure, but what Decimator wrote might have been the actual likely scenario.

[Zpxbawtz]

I think the Sumerians might also be similar but that's a whole separate story.

That's where I'm not following ya a7i... Sumerian ressembles Linear B and Tyrrhenean (especially Eteo-Cretan and proto-Pelasgian) languages more than anything else.... Moreover, there's a confirmed pattern leading to hg J2a1e (M319+).

[zoppiklonikaa]

The Veddid-Australoid looking people could be associated with H (M69) bearers while the linguistic/cultural role of Elamo-Dravidian was mainly brought by L (M20).

I don't know if haplogroups could be mixed in here, but L and R2 are probably the two strongest candidates for ancient Dravidian speakers that lived in the Indus region, if you go to Southeast India today R2 is very strong there among Telugu populations.

[Butiqueso]

I don't know if haplogroups could be mixed in here, but L and R2 are probably the two strongest candidates for ancient Dravidian speakers that lived in the Indus region, if you go to Southeast India today R2 is very strong there among Telugu populations.

True, it correlates a progressive expansion of this idiomatic group quite neatly.

[Rexaviennatutr]

That's where I'm not following ya a7i... Sumerian ressembles Linear B and Tyrrhenean (especially Eteo-Cretan and proto-Pelasgian) languages more than anything else.... Moreover, there's a confirmed pattern leading to hg J2a8.

See I have a problem when people mention haplogroup J2 with Sumerians, the reason for that is because there has been no ancient DNA of Sumerians found, not to mention that the haplogroup diversity within that region today is very great with many different haplogroups.

An interesting study for that would be to test Marsh Arabs, but then again I have a feeling they have a very strong Arab background and we'll end up with J1 mostly.

[HedgeYourBets]

I don't know if haplogroups could be mixed in here, but L and R2 are probably the two strongest candidates for ancient Dravidian speakers that lived in the Indus region, if you go to Southeast India today R2 is very strong there among Telugu populations.

Some Indian poster here (JoshK) and other old user (Iyengar) used to argue the purest racial Dravidians were the Indo-European Northwestern Lower Castes in India (but not Pariahs). These people usually look Dark caucasoid, even if some have Aboriginal ancestry, that's not their predominant ancestry.

If you ask me, it sounds likely to me.

[katespepach]

See I have a problem when people mention haplogroup J2 with Sumerians, the reason for that is because there has been no ancient DNA of Sumerians found, not to mention that the haplogroup diversity within that region today is very great with many different haplogroups.

Good point also, archeogenetic testing should be a norm... And yet, here we are; stuck on our suppositions.
The haplogroup diversity found in Na7rain could be linked to several factors, historical ones even (Neo-Assyrian deportations for example).

Some Indian poster here (JoshK) and other old user (Iyengar) used to argue the purest racial Dravidians were the Indo-European Northwestern Lower Castes in India (but not Pariahs). These people usually look Dark caucasoid, even if some have Aboriginal ancestry, that's not their predominant ancestry.

If you ask me, it sounds likely to me.

It does make sense if we consider the frequencies of HGs L(M20+) and H (M69+) in the Dalit.
One could also suppose that Gypsies belonged to low castes before finally "fleeing" in a way or another from their status which would explain their H1a (M82+) frequency.

[Bill-Watson]

True, it correlates a progressive expansion of this idiomatic group quite neatly.

On the other hand L is not that strong in all areas where R2 is, today in India R1a1 and R2 go hand in hand and are strong and weak in the same communities and areas, L (L1 mostly) is mostly on the western side and sort of very weak on the eastern side, this tells me that the R1a1 and R2 people might have had a similar migration time-line to India and were probably the same stock for most part when they arrived.

[Kayacterype]

On the other hand L is not that strong in all areas where R2 is, today in India R1a1 and R2 go hand in hand and are strong and weak in the same communities and areas, L (L1 mostly) is mostly on the western side and sort of very weak on the eastern side, this tells me that the R1a1 and R2 people might have had a similar migration time-line to India and were probably the same stock for most part when they arrived.

R2 reaches high frequencies in Bengal and transcends linguistic boundaries...
Yet downstream clades haven't been found so it isn't making the job easier.

[pavilionnotebook]

If someone have photos or morphs of "classic" Dravidians post it here please