[alexosnasos2]

i have been so curios of their orgins and who they are related too?

Dravidian is a language, and NOT a race.

But to answer your question most indian dravidians today are caucasoids, of mostley west eurasian origion.

But the original dravidians may have been like proto caucasoids, or atleast similair to that.
This is how the elamites looked like.
http://sarabe3.tripod.com/images/image047.jpg
Clearly a darkskinned proto caucasoid.

[CelexaNY]

This is how the elamites looked like.
http://sarabe3.tripod.com/images/image047.jpg
Clearly a darkskinned proto caucasoid.

So Elamites the native Mesopo were somehow related to Dravidians?

[RayFairhurst]

So Elamites the native Mesopo were somehow related to Dravidians?

Mesopotamians is a general term for many different groups, I would say pre-Iranian Iran was probably related to the Dravidian speakers, groups such as Elamites and Kassites that lived in modern day Iran before the arrival of Indo-Iranian people from Central Asia were likely very close to the Indus people.

[Seerseraxlils]

Why do the lighter skinned south indians(dravidians) and north indians(indo iranians) look the same if they are from Iran and central asia respectively?

North Indian: http://plixi.com/p/45948106

lighter skinned dravidian: http://www.extramirchi.com/wp-conten...1/shobana8.jpg

the dark south indians are probably mixed with australoids but, I am talking about pure dravidians without any australoid admixture.

[Qutlsilh]

The original ones? Probably looked like this 2nd centuryl B.C Mural paintings their facial features are similar to the priest bust found in Indus Vally.



however racial diversity is pretty obvious here.

[Unlopssesuj]

I don't know if haplogroups could be mixed in here, but L and R2 are probably the two strongest candidates for ancient Dravidian speakers that lived in the Indus region, if you go to Southeast India today R2 is very strong there among Telugu populations

I would say that together both Haplogroup L and J2 in southasia go hand in hand as the 2 predominant neolithic markers that traces the agricultural leap from west asia into india. L and J2 are both found in the West Coast and also common in northern india. you can kind of view the two as being the south asian version of what J2 and E1b1b means to southern europe.

today in India R1a1 and R2 go hand in hand and are strong and weak in the same communities and areas..

There is connections between R1a1 and R2 like you said, but there are also major differences. Like R1a1 isn't predominantly frequent in southeast india like R2 is. But especially when looking at the Telugu populations it seems that R2 could even go hand in hand with Y-haplogroup T in the eastern parts of india.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...T_Y-DNA_II.svg

Mesopotamians is a general term for many different groups, I would say pre-Iranian Iran was probably related to the Dravidian speakers, groups such as Elamites and Kassites that lived in modern day Iran before the arrival of Indo-Iranian people from Central Asia were likely very close to the Indus people.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...2/Elam_Map.jpg

The Elamites culture were right next door to THE Sumerians and Archaeologically they were the closest to cultures found near mesopotamia, not the Indus valley. Also there are Linguists who rather criticize the Elamo-Dravidian Hypothesis, yet conclude that Elamites was related to Afroasiatics. This is Not to say that I believe they are right, but it should point out to everyone that even the Elamo-Dravidian connection isn't as completely resolved as many would like.

See I have a problem when people mention haplogroup J2 with Sumerians, the reason for that is because there has been no ancient DNA of Sumerians found, not to mention that the haplogroup diversity within that region today is very great with many different haplogroups.

An interesting study for that would be to test Marsh Arabs, but then again I have a feeling they have a very strong Arab background and we'll end up with J1 mostly.

Also point towards the modern descendants of Elamites in southern iran, as being situated in an area that has to be a heavily J1 influenced area too. But the problem remains that J1 isn't that common inside southern asia.

[tilmprarnerit]

An interesting study for that would be to test Marsh Arabs, but then again I have a feeling they have a very strong Arab background and we'll end up with J1 mostly.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/09...abstracts.html

N. Al-Zahery et al. The male gene pool of the contemporary Mesopotamia marsh population supports their Semitic origin.
The origin of the modern Mesopotamia marsh people, which are locally called “Ma’dan” or “Marsh’s Arabs”, is a question of great interest. Based on their life-style (living in reed houses, grazing of water buffalo and other aspects) and local archaeological sites, many historians and archaeologists believe they may have Sumerian ancestry. Although little is known about the origin of Sumerians themselves, two main hypotheses have been advanced in this regard. According to the first, Sumerians were a group of populations which migrated from the “South East” following a seashore route through the Arabian Gulf, and settled down in the southern marshes of Iraq. According to the second, the advancement of the Sumerian civilization is the result of migration from the mountainous area of Anatolia to the southern marshes of Iraq where they settled, adsorbing previous populations. In order to shed some light on the genetic origin of the Mesopotamia marsh population, we investigated the male gene pool of 145 DNA samples of modern Mesopotamia people, still living in marshes in the south of Iraq. The analyses of Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNPs) and Short Tandem Repeats (STRs) of the paternally transmitted Male Specific region of the Y chromosome (MSY) revealed that more than 80% of marsh Y chromosomes belong to (Hg) J1-M267, the autochthonous haplogroup of Middle Eastern/Semitic speakers with possible recent expansion and/or founder effect reflected by the reduced STRs variability. In particular, 90% of them were assigned to the J1e-M267-PAGE08 sub-haplogroup, which is the predominant Y chromosome lineage among Middle Eastern Arab populations (Yemen, Qatar, UAE, and Levant). Thus, these findings testify, at least from the paternal side, a strong Semitic Arabian component in the contemporary Mesopotamia marshes population, whereas no clear Anatolian and/or South Asian genetic evidence has been detected.

[Sukadrukanga]

[QUOTE=Reality Check;217599]I would say that together both Haplogroup L and J2 in southasia go hand in hand as the 2 predominant neolithic markers that traces the agricultural leap from west asia into india. L and J2 are both found in the West Coast and also common in northern india. you can kind of view the two as being the south asian version of what J2 and E1b1b means to southern europe.


I have to agree with that .The haplogroup J2 and L have higher concentration among the western coast and haplogroup R2 have higher frequencies in eastern coast .i dont think the haplogroup H to be dravidian as it is found only in lower concentrations in south india compared to R2,L and J2

I have the results for the ftdna project for keralites

The results of the ongoing project are like this

c=3/82
f=1/82
g=2/82
h=7/82
j2=16/82
l=15/82
o=1/82
q=3/82
r1a-25/82
r1b=1/82
r2=8/82


kerala is western coast of india and they are having higher frequencies for J2 and L compared to R2