[ProomoSam]

Please find a reputable source (academic, foreign policy expert) to agrees with you.

Hell even back then the Chinese were not a super power by your standards as they were taken over by the Mongols, the Khitai, the Manchu, and a few other Turkic Nomadic tribes, CHina never was able to control its Northern border for very long...they just made peace with those tribes or tried to play them off against each other.

Do you think America would allow this to happen with Canadians???

ain't that what the romans also did? why do u compare america wid ancient china? do u think ancient politics and modern ones are the same? do u even think about that?

anyway i dont need to find a reputable source (academic, foreign policy expert) to agree with me.

since this shit is so simple to get that any half-ass gradeschool kid wid a brain would easily understand it.

---------- Post added 2010-09-15 at 15:06 ----------

Do you think America would allow this to happen with Canadians???

maybe wid mexicans chea....

americo 2050

[TolleyBoymn]

Jack, where did you read that China made it all the way to Canada? I thought that was from a book called 1421, the Year China Discovered the World, which is not a credible source. The farthest sea expedition that the Chinese made was in the Ming Dynasty under Zheng He to the Horn of Africa. They farthest land expedition was made in the Han dynasty under Ban Chao. He made it as far as the the Persian Gulf and some say he made all the way to the Caspian.

[boffincash]

ain't that what the romans also did? why do u compare america wid ancient china? do u think ancient politics and modern ones are the same? do u even think about that?

anyway i dont need to find a reputable source (academic, foreign policy expert) to agree with me.

since this shit is so simple to get that any half-ass gradeschool kid wid a brain would easily understand it.

---------- Post added 2010-09-15 at 15:06 ----------




maybe wid mexicans chea....

americo 2050

ignorant clown

[trettegeani]

Jack, where did you read that China made it all the way to Canada? I thought that was from a book called 1421, the Year China Discovered the World, which is not a credible source. The farthest sea expedition that the Chinese made was in the Ming Dynasty under Zheng He to the Horn of Africa. They farthest land expedition was made in the Han dynasty under Ban Chao. He made it as far as the the Persian Gulf and some say he made all the way to the Caspian.

ey yo, u got it twisted son wat he sayin is dat people up north mongols invaded china and ran thangs around dem country like the godamn boss and all dat coz they aint no supa powah or watevah. And dat shi... ain't happenin to americuh coz they supa powah unlike china they got dem canadians checked.

[Kilaoksrsa]

Jack, where did you read that China made it all the way to Canada? I thought that was from a book called 1421, the Year China Discovered the World, which is not a credible source. The farthest sea expedition that the Chinese made was in the Ming Dynasty under Zheng He to the Horn of Africa. They farthest land expedition was made in the Han dynasty under Ban Chao. He made it as far as the the Persian Gulf and some say he made all the way to the Caspian.

No that is not what I meant.

What I meant was that the U.s. a true "Super Power" would never tolerate a situation on its Northern border (which is also largely flat prairie land) that China had to deal with over and over again for a few thousand years.


I didn't mean Chinese went to Canada.

I'm aware of Zhenghe's voyage, but I don't believe that book 1492, then again a lot of records were destroyed, who knows...I doubt it. Chinese were not "open sea" people they hugged the coasts.

[inilbowly]

I don't see how it is off-topic. I've noticed some of the most ardent Chinese nationalists are 1.5 or 2nd-generation immigrants to the West who are Westernized to varying degrees. I think it's rather odd for these people to be talking about Mainland China in terms of 'us' and 'we', when the vast majority of them would be viewed as foreigners there, especially from the moment they open their mouths.

I think its partially because of the racism they face in America, and partially because of they way they were taught by their parents. I use we/us when referring to both America and China because I identify as a Chinese American. Why is it odd that I view China on the same level as America, I lived about half my life in China and half my life in American and I love both countries. And no, I wouldn't be considered an outsider in either country because I don't have an accent speaking English or Chinese.

---------- Post added 2010-09-15 at 15:37 ----------

No that is not what I meant.

What I meant was that the U.s. a true "Super Power" would never tolerate a situation on its Northern border (which is also largely flat prairie land) that China had to deal with over and over again for a few thousand years.


I didn't mean Chinese went to Canada.

I'm aware of Zhenghe's voyage, but I don't believe that book 1492, then again a lot of records were destroyed, who knows...I doubt it. Chinese were not "open sea" people they hugged the coasts.

lol you did write this though:

"It was not until the Ming Dynasty that CHina had ocean going vessels that left East and Southeast Asia and made it to the Middle East and Canada, the largest extent of any Chinese empire was by the Mongols into Kyrgyzstan and into Siberia and the Russian Fareast...the Han did not do that, they were led to do that."

[DrKirkNoliss]

I think its partially because of the racism they face in America, and partially because of they way they were taught by their parents. I use we/us when referring to both America and China because I identify as a Chinese American. Why is it odd that I view China on the same level as America, I lived about half my life in China and half my life in American and I love both countries. And no, I wouldn't be considered an outsider in either country because I don't have an accent speaking English or Chinese.

---------- Post added 2010-09-15 at 15:37 ----------



lol you did write this though:

"It was not until the Ming Dynasty that CHina had ocean going vessels that left East and Southeast Asia and made it to the Middle East and Canada, the largest extent of any Chinese empire was by the Mongols into Kyrgyzstan and into Siberia and the Russian Fareast...the Han did not do that, they were led to do that."

So which Chinese Dynasty spread the borders of China the furtherest? One ruled by Han? I don't think so, it was Qing (Manchu) or Yuan (Mongol)...

And what Chinese Dynasty before Ming had ocean going vessels that traveled outside the South China Sea?? (meaning into the Indian Ocean and beyond??)

Although the Ming did indeed travel the furtherest they did not conquered the most area and incorporate it into Chinese territory.

[Zavdpacq]

So which Chinese Dynasty spread the borders of China the furtherest? One ruled by Han? I don't think so, it was Qing (Manchu) or Yuan (Mongol)...

And what Chinese Dynasty before Ming had ocean going vessels that traveled outside the South China Sea?? (meaning into the Indian Ocean and beyond??)

Although the Ming did indeed travel the furtherest they did not conquered the most area and incorporate it into Chinese territory.

Yeah I'm not disagreeing with you, just wanted to point out that you did say China reached Canada lol

[Orefsmisits]

Yeah I'm not disagreeing with you, just wanted to point out that you did say China reached Canada lol

Oh yeah...I did. LOL

Okay...well unless Eskimos are Chinese, I have to disagree with myself.

[womberte]

So which Chinese Dynasty spread the borders of China the furtherest? One ruled by Han? I don't think so, it was Qing (Manchu) or Yuan (Mongol)...

And what Chinese Dynasty before Ming had ocean going vessels that traveled outside the South China Sea?? (meaning into the Indian Ocean and beyond??)

Although the Ming did indeed travel the furtherest they did not conquered the most area and incorporate it into Chinese territory.

they easily could conquer but their mindset was different during those times..... it could all change now.... maybe we will see it within our lifetime

[vekiuytyh]

they easily could conquer but their mindset was different during those times..... it could all change now.... maybe we will see it within our lifetime

if you think they look favorably on people like you and that would be good for you?

haha

Think again

[KlaraNovikoffa]

if you think they look favorably on people like you and that would be good for you?

haha

Think again

they do we have good business wid dem.... its all good
i dont get why some people are so insecure of china

[gniewkoit]

Well you know I would be happy for China if they really be the next super power and where their encomy is at right now but also are very orderly and of course advanced, all they would have to do is push the meter up more or get very promoting and their you have a superpower.

"Let's get ready to tumble"

[Fuerfsanv]

Trading super power, I can see that.

Military super power? Nope, I fail to see it. And Japan is right next door, probably viewing China not-so-much as an ally, considering the animosity, and the Rape of Nanjing. Chinese apparently have a very long memory about somethings. A chinese chick got rather angry when I asked her about it. I could sense some seething hatred there; I don't think she was even from Nanjing. It was more about "Chinese identity" as a singular group of people.

Besides, I really fail to see how any non-European nation, at its roots, can dominate European supremacy in warfare. Europeans have been creating war (with each other) for centuries. Europeans have evolved warfare. This is why Europeans are so good at it… now obviously other ares of the world have been fighting and infighting, but, not really as European history unfolded (combining industry & military complexes together). North Amerika is just an off-shoot of the English Anglo-Saxons. South Amerika is an off-shoot of Spain.

Maybe if the Mongols were resurrected, China may have a shot, but how likely is that??

[JulieSmithdccd]

Trading super power, I can see that.

Military super power? Nope, I fail to see it. And Japan is right next door, probably viewing China not-so-much as an ally, considering the animosity, and the Rape of Nanjing. Chinese apparently have a very long memory about somethings. A chinese chick got rather angry when I asked her about it. I could sense some seething hatred there; I don't think she was even from Nanjing. It was more about "Chinese identity" as a singular group of people.

Besides, I really fail to see how any non-European nation, at its roots, can dominate European supremacy in warfare. Europeans have been creating war (with each other) for centuries. Europeans have evolved warfare. This is why Europeans are so good at it… now obviously other ares of the world have been fighting and infighting, but, not really as European history unfolded (combining industry & military complexes together). North Amerika is just an off-shoot of the English Anglo-Saxons. South Amerika is an off-shoot of Spain.

Maybe if the Mongols were resurrected, China may have a shot, but how likely is that??

What the Chinese people suffer at the hands of the Japanese were on the same level as the suffering of the Jews at the hands of Nazi Germany. No one has any problems with Germany today because Germans are very sensitive about the issue and made sincerely apologies and made sure their next generation understand the what went wrong so that it can never ever happen again. Japan on the other hand, never made a genuine official apology to the Chinese and Korean people. They changed their history textbooks so they can water down the atrocities they committed and and teach in their books that what the Japanese did was for the benefit of the people of the Far East. Almost every recent Japanese president as visited the Yasukuni Shrine which worships class-A war criminals that committed the atrocities across China and other parts of Asia. Also, some former Unit 731 officers were not prosecuted and rose to high ranks in academia and politics in Japan. Imagine how Jew would feel if high ranking SS officers were spared and later became politicians.

Why do Chinese people have a "long" memeory? because the issue are still very lingering even today. Recently chemical weapons were found still buried in Manchuria and it contaminated a water source. Also the Japanese still don't fully acknowledge the "comfort women" issue. Over 410,000 women from various East Asians were kidnapped and forced into prostitution in Japanese Army run brothels. Former Japanese prime minister denied the alligations of the Kwantung army's involvement over the comfort women issue even though there are still thousands of still living victims who want a sincerely apology. In addition, there is the issue of the Senkaku Islands(which i wrote about in another thread) which Chinese people from all across the globe see as a direct confrontation by the Japanese military.

Most Chinese people including myself have no problem whatsoever with the Japanese people. However, the way that their government have dealt with the lingering wounds that Japan inflicted on the whole of Asia is thoroughly insulting especially to the Chinese and Korean people. Until they choose to do something about it, China and Korea will always view Japan with suspicion and as a potentially dangerous rival.

[durootrium]

Chinese people are small and pathetic.

by the way you are trolling you're quite the hypocrite

[sanddrareyk]

by the way you are trolling you're quite the hypocrite

Chinese women ALWAYS go for white guys when they get half a chance. You Chinks are small-dicked with no individual personalities.

[Kamepherype]

What the Chinese people suffer at the hands of the Japanese were on the same level as the suffering of the Jews at the hands of Nazi Germany. No one has any problems with Germany today because Germans are very sensitive about the issue and made sincerely apologies and made sure their next generation understand the what went wrong so that it can never ever happen again. Japan on the other hand, never made a genuine official apology to the Chinese and Korean people.

I think a lot of Prime Ministers in the past have issued apologies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ssued_by_Japan

Looking at this list, it has happened every two years from the 1970's on.

They changed their history textbooks so they can water down the atrocities they committed and and teach in their books that what the Japanese did was for the benefit of the people of the Far East. Some history books have been altered like that, not all. The selection of history books to be used in school is a regional matter in Japan, and only very few districts chose those polemic books.

Almost every recent Japanese president as visited the Yasukuni Shrine which worships class-A war criminals that committed the atrocities across China and other parts of Asia. True. But I don't think the most recent one has done that. Maybe some change is happening in Japanese society?

Also, some former Unit 731 officers were not prosecuted and rose to high ranks in academia and politics in Japan. Imagine how Jew would feel if high ranking SS officers were spared and later became politicians. What happened with Unit 731 officers was actually very common after World War II. It had to do with the Cold War and the powers of the time wanting military secrets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_paperclip

Operation Paperclip was the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) program used to recruit the scientists of Nazi Germany for employment by the United States in the aftermath of World War II (1939–45). It was executed by the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency (JIOA), and in the context of the burgeoning Soviet–American Cold War (1945–91), one purpose of Operation Paperclip was to deny German scientific knowledge and expertise to the USSR and the UK. The Krupp family, steelmakers who used slave labor in WWII, was punished only in name. After 7 years they regained the control over their company, due to concerns over the Cold War.

In 1943, by a special order from Hitler, the company reverted to a sole-proprietorship, with Gustav and Bertha's eldest son Alfried Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach (1907–67) as proprietor. After Germany's defeat, Gustav was senile and incapable of standing trial, and the Nuremberg Military Tribunal convicted Alfried as a war criminal in the Krupp Trial for "plunder" and for his company's use of slave labor. It sentenced him to 12 years in prison and ordered him to sell 75% of his holdings. In 1951, as the Cold War developed and no buyer came forward, the authorities released him, and in 1953 he resumed control of the firm. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_73...f_World_War_II

MacArthur secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731 in exchange for providing America with their research on biological warfare.[7] American occupation authorities monitored the activities of former unit members, including reading and censoring their mail.[23]

The U.S. believed that the research data was valuable. The U.S. did not want other nations, particularly the Soviet Union, to acquire data on biological weapons.[24] Shiro Ishii, a top commander of Unit 731, went to Maryland, USA, after the war to help in biological warfare research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiro_Ishii#Immunity

Only the Soviet Union prosecuted the criminals of Unit 731 in the Khabarovsk War Tribunal.

Why do Chinese people have a "long" memeory? because the issue are still very lingering even today. Recently chemical weapons were found still buried in Manchuria and it contaminated a water source. Also the Japanese still don't fully acknowledge the "comfort women" issue. Over 410,000 women from various East Asians were kidnapped and forced into prostitution in Japanese Army run brothels. Former Japanese prime minister denied the alligations of the Kwantung army's involvement over the comfort women issue even though there are still thousands of still living victims who want a sincerely apology. In addition, there is the issue of the Senkaku Islands(which i wrote about in another thread) which Chinese people from all across the globe see as a direct confrontation by the Japanese military.

Most Chinese people including myself have no problem whatsoever with the Japanese people. However, the way that their government have dealt with the lingering wounds that Japan inflicted on the whole of Asia is thoroughly insulting especially to the Chinese and Korean people. Until they choose to do something about it, China and Korea will always view Japan with suspicion and as a potentially dangerous rival. I think the issue with comfort women is not so much the recognition that they existed (PM Tomichii Murayama apologized for the Army's action regarding comfort women in 1995), but the compensations. The treaties of normalization of relationship between Japan and South Korea/Taiwan/PRC said that there'd be a compensation for the government (money/investments) instead of a compensation for individuals. The Koreans say that the treaty isn't valid because it was done during a dictatorship. I think the same thing may have happened with Taiwan/PRC. But in international politics, the fact that a country is ruled by a dictatorship doesn't make its deals or claims void. You can see that in the debt of African countries (most contracted to go to the pocket of the dictator of the time and paid by the general population) and also in the claims that are made for territory (like China with Tibet, which depends on a time when China was an empire).

[U5pz6B71]

I think a lot of Prime Ministers in the past have issued apologies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ssued_by_Japan

Looking at this list, it has happened every two years from the 1970's on.



Some history books have been altered like that, not all. The selection of history books to be used in school is a regional matter in Japan, and only very few districts chose those polemic books.



True. But I don't think the most recent one has done that. Maybe some change is happening in Japanese society?



What happened with Unit 731 officers was actually very common after World War II. It had to do with the Cold War and the powers of the time wanting military secrets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_paperclip



The Krupp family, steelmakers who used slave labor in WWII, was punished only in name. After 7 years they regained the control over their company, due to concerns over the Cold War.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_73...f_World_War_II



Shiro Ishii, a top commander of Unit 731, went to Maryland, USA, after the war to help in biological warfare research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiro_Ishii#Immunity

Only the Soviet Union prosecuted the criminals of Unit 731 in the Khabarovsk War Tribunal.



I think the issue with comfort women is not so much the recognition that they existed (PM Tomichii Murayama apologized for the Army's action regarding comfort women in 1995), but the compensations. The treaties of normalization of relationship between Japan and South Korea/Taiwan/PRC said that there'd be a compensation for the government (money/investments) instead of a compensation for individuals. The Koreans say that the treaty isn't valid because it was done during a dictatorship. I think the same thing may have happened with Taiwan/PRC. But in international politics, the fact that a country is ruled by a dictatorship doesn't make its deals or claims void. You can see that in the debt of African countries (most contracted to go to the pocket of the dictator of the time and paid by the general population) and also in the claims that are made for territory (like China with Tibet, which depends on a time when China was an empire).

I understand that Japan has officially apologized in multiple times in the pass. But how can it be a sincere apology if their prime minister goes to the Yasukuni shrine right after they make an apology. Also, the problem with the textbooks has to do with the Ministry of Education which approves textbooks and revised books making them distort historical facts. What China/Japan/Korea needs is a joint textbook.



With Japan/Korea/Taiwan/China relations, its always a cycle of warming relations then followed by some sort of clash of interest which brings back residual problems of WWII and territorial disputes. The current prime minister appears to be more reasonable and hasn't been to the shrine, but right now the Senkaku Islands issue is boiling over and Chinese/HK/Taiwanese nationalists are again ready to takes boats to the island occupy it by force. Taiwan has said in the past that it reserve the right to use force to protect the Senkaku Islands from outside encroachment.

[gennick]

What the Chinese people suffer at the hands of the Japanese were on the same level as the suffering of the Jews at the hands of Nazi Germany.

Nowhere near the same.

Half the world's Jews were killed by the Germans.

For the Japanese to kill half the Han Chinese in the world, a half a billion people would have to die, and that would take many, many years.

The Japanese never attempted to exterminate the entire Han people. They just treated everyone who wasn't Japanese worse than animals. Foreign Prisoners of War were treated the same as the Chinese.