[cl004]

learning Chinese is not necessarily to benefit from pictograph system of writing. All is needed is to adapt Chinese writing to English spoken word. why? because it does not get corrupted when phonetic shifts occur while the western writing does just that. The Chinese will not understand Japanese but he can read Japanese newspapers. he can also read ancient Chinese books. how cool is that?

There are major, major linguistic differences between Chinese and "Modern English". Don, you are correct. Chinese is an ancient language; it relatively remains unchanging within its linguistic structure. Amerikanized-English, on the other hand, is the exact opposite. It changes very, very fast.

For example: "hi lul, how r u 2day? me im gud, wut r u doin l8r?"

Amerikanized-English suffers "phonetic shifts" unlike any other modernized language. This is why Amerikanized-English is so difficult to learn for "outsiders" or "non-native English speakers".

As most probably know… Amerikanized-English (the Amerikan Empire) is derived from "Old English" (the British Empire), derived from Latin (the Roman Empire), derived from the Greek Alpha-Beta… language is an extension of militaristic, cultural, and civil progress.


So, the point is this: Amerikanized-English, and its nature to change & adapt very quickly, is very good in some aspects. Also, Ancient Chinese, and its nature to resist change, and maintain consistency in linguistic structure, is very good in other aspects. Each language has its own advantages & disadvantages.

Now, China and Amerika are the world's leading Economic Superpowers. So it makes common-sense why so many people (including EVERY MEMBER on this forum) understands spoken or written-English. But, China has yet to assert itself as a world "Superpower". It is an "Isolationist" country/entity just as USA used to be. This is not true today. It has yet to be determined whether China will influence or dictate world affairs, as Amerikan military power can & does (when backed by Neo-conservative politicking). One possibility is that China will instigate (and win) international trade wars (as they already have been doing).

If that happens then you can rest-assured that more than the already 1000000000 people will be speaking Chinese, or at least, some form of it, as a language…


Even a few years ago, within my own studies, I contemplated undertaking such a project myself (of merging Chinese and English linguistic sub-structures). But that obviously takes a lot of time, effort, knowledge, and devotion to linguistics… (time that I simply do not have right now).

[XU8i6ysK]

I think it's going to be the other way around: Chinese will start learning english or any other language. Chinese is too hard to learn and un-practical.

[Alexunda]

given China's unstoppable economic growth it's safe to say they're going to be the next leading economy in the world.
do you think future generations will learn chinese rather than english as a lingua franca?

I think we will all end up speaking Spanish.

Look at in the U.S where spanish language is assimilating us instead of us assimilasting them to English.

Spanish is really one of the most simple languages to learn in the world. So therefor it makes it likely to spread.

I think Chinese is so hard & outdated that overtime they will likely adopt more & more European languages.
Especially as they do more business with us.

But, the U.S seems to be assimilating to Spanish. China is doing business with the U.S.

[Gvadelunar]

There are major, major linguistic differences between Chinese and "Modern English". Don, you are correct. Chinese is an ancient language; it relatively remains unchanging within its linguistic structure. Amerikanized-English, on the other hand, is the exact opposite. It changes very, very fast.

For example: "hi lul, how r u 2day? me im gud, wut r u doin l8r?"

Amerikanized-English suffers "phonetic shifts" unlike any other modernized language. This is why Amerikanized-English is so difficult to learn for "outsiders" or "non-native English speakers".

As most probably know… Amerikanized-English (the Amerikan Empire) is derived from "Old English" (the British Empire), derived from Latin (the Roman Empire), derived from the Greek Alpha-Beta… language is an extension of militaristic, cultural, and civil progress.


So, the point is this: Amerikanized-English, and its nature to change & adapt very quickly, is very good in some aspects. Also, Ancient Chinese, and its nature to resist change, and maintain consistency in linguistic structure, is very good in other aspects. Each language has its own advantages & disadvantages.

Now, China and Amerika are the world's leading Economic Superpowers. So it makes common-sense why so many people (including EVERY MEMBER on this forum) understands spoken or written-English. But, China has yet to assert itself as a world "Superpower". It is an "Isolationist" country/entity just as USA used to be. This is not true today. It has yet to be determined whether China will influence or dictate world affairs, as Amerikan military power can & does (when backed by Neo-conservative politicking). One possibility is that China will instigate (and win) international trade wars (as they already have been doing).

If that happens then you can rest-assured that more than the already 1000000000 people will be speaking Chinese, or at least, some form of it, as a language…


Even a few years ago, within my own studies, I contemplated undertaking such a project myself (of merging Chinese and English linguistic sub-structures). But that obviously takes a lot of time, effort, knowledge, and devotion to linguistics… (time that I simply do not have right now).

1. That has nothing to do with language structure, but an easy quick way to type characters in your mobile phone.

2. All languages (all speakers) can adapt to new circumstances.

3. I wonder how the European Union, which is an economic superpower too, will solve its language diversity.

4. There are other languages/regions to take into account, I think. South America and Spanish/Portuguese. Africa and English/French/Arabic, all of them official in most of African countries. Bear in mind that English is an official language in India. Russian and Russia/Slavic Europe.

5. Language mixing (creolization, pidgins) are rare and only occur when at last two extremely different linguistic communities share a place. I can't imagine how such a thing would take place in the xxi century between English and Chinese.

---------- Post added 2010-08-24 at 23:01 ----------

I think we will all end up speaking Spanish.

Look at in the U.S where spanish language is assimilating us instead of us assimilasting them to English.

Spanish is really one of the most simple languages to learn in the world. So therefor it makes it likely to spread.

I think Chinese is so hard & outdated that overtime they will likely adopt more & more European languages.
Especially as they do more business with us.

But, the U.S seems to be assimilating to Spanish. China is doing business with the U.S.

Many Hispanics can't speak Spanish. They're basically third or fourth generation Americans. Many just speak Spanglish, Spanish with lots of English words and expressions. The next stage for the latter and their children is full assimilation into the dominant linguistic community: English speakers.

[Lilji]

I think in the countries surrounding China (countries in east and southeast Asia) you'll see more people learning the language; in fact I think to some extent that is already happening today. But in the rest of the world English will hold its ground. China is still a middle income country, the U.S. is light years ahead. It will take many decades before China can get to where the U.S. is in terms of global influence and the U.S won't stand still for those decades. Historically China has never tried to export its culture beyond its immediate sphere of influence. It remains to be seen if this way of doing things will be true of 21st century China as well.

[WumibBesowe]

1. That has nothing to do with language structure, but an easy quick way to type characters in your mobile phone.

2. All languages (all speakers) can adapt to new circumstances.

3. I wonder how the European Union, which is an economic superpower too, will solve its language diversity.

4. There are other languages/regions to take into account, I think. South America and Spanish/Portuguese. Africa and English/French/Arabic, all of them official in most of African countries. Bear in mind that English is an official language in India. Russian and Russia/Slavic Europe.

5. Language mixing (creolization, pidgins) are rare and only occur when at last two extremely different linguistic communities share a place. I can't imagine how such a thing would take place in the xxi century between English and Chinese.

---------- Post added 2010-08-24 at 23:01 ----------



Many Hispanics can't speak Spanish. They're basically third or fourth generation Americans. Many just speak Spanglish, Spanish with lots of English words and expressions. The next stage for the latter and their children is full assimilation into the dominant linguistic community: English speakers.

Yes & No.
There are communities especially in parts of Texas, California & New Mexico where the latino community does not need to learn much english.

Kids in school are learning more spanish in the U.S & for jobs we are learning more spanish.

Thing is more & more latinos are becoming a majority. So eventually I think there will be a breaking point where there are more latinos than whites. At that point spanish could potentially become dominant over english.

[Thunderzee]

I think we will all end up speaking Spanish.

Look at in the U.S where spanish language is assimilating us instead of us assimilasting them to English.

Spanish is really one of the most simple languages to learn in the world. So therefor it makes it likely to spread.

I think Chinese is so hard & outdated that overtime they will likely adopt more & more European languages.
Especially as they do more business with us.

But, the U.S seems to be assimilating to Spanish. China is doing business with the U.S.

Wow, somebody who actually thinks Spanish is simple!

Not even I do, not at all

But now Mexico public schools include English. So we are assimilating!

[IamRobot]

I think it's going to be the other way around: Chinese will start learning english or any other language. Chinese is too hard to learn and un-practical.

A very large number of Asians already can speak English in-addition to Chinese or Japanese or Korean.

But having dual-languages necessarily does not mean that one of them (Chinese for example) is going to go extinct or even drop from common usage.

I think we will all end up speaking Spanish.

Look at in the U.S where spanish language is assimilating us instead of us assimilasting them to English.

Spanish is really one of the most simple languages to learn in the world. So therefor it makes it likely to spread.

I think Chinese is so hard & outdated that overtime they will likely adopt more & more European languages.
Especially as they do more business with us.

But, the U.S seems to be assimilating to Spanish. China is doing business with the U.S.

Good point, I hadn't thought about that.

A "simple" language would be easiest and most-accessible to the largest amount of people. So Spanish could spread as a language through this route. English and Spanish are both Latin-derived, though very separate now.

If your point is true, which it seems so, then the "simple" languages should spread amongst people who need an "easy" language to communicate to each-other. I do think different languages reflect advanced or non-advanced variables which coincide with technological, social, cultural progress, etc.

I was told a fact that 'English' and 'German' had the most words of all languages in the world. Anyone confirm/deny?? If true then there is a definite correlation between word-amount within a given language and physical-conceptual structures of the brain…

1. That has nothing to do with language structure, but an easy quick way to type characters in your mobile phone.

(Poor) Grammar has nothing to do with language structure? ~ really??

1337-speak does affect (Amerikanized-English) language…?

I disagree.

2. All languages (all speakers) can adapt to new circumstances.

I agree.

3. I wonder how the European Union, which is an economic superpower too, will solve its language diversity.

I guess the EU probably will remain multi-lingual and its adherents prominently will speak anywhere between 3-5 different languages, especially including: English, French, and German. Any other languages will compete for cultural (and economic) superiority.

Europa has been infighting since forever. I doubt it will stop anytime soon. For a good example, I just cite how Finns hate Russians and take every opportunity to argue about their roots everyday. They are not going to stop anytime soon. In fact, Europeans killed each-other all the time during the Middle Ages over more mundane & trivial issues.

Europeans are clan-dominated, and still very nationalistic (despite Globalism)…

4. There are other languages/regions to take into account, I think. South America and Spanish/Portuguese. Africa and English/French/Arabic, all of them official in most of African countries. Bear in mind that English is an official language in India. Russian and Russia/Slavic Europe.

I do not think these languages will spread on the world-stage without major shifts in empirical power. Unless there were any type of "Brazilian Empire" within the next three centuries… nobody cares about South Amerika, or Australia. They are "just there, doing their thing".

5. Language mixing (creolization, pidgins) are rare and only occur when at last two extremely different linguistic communities share a place. I can't imagine how such a thing would take place in the xxi century between English and Chinese.

Very easy between English and Chinese: economic trade wars.

This already has begun a decade ago, between Japan, US, and China…

Many Hispanics can't speak Spanish. They're basically third or fourth generation Americans. Many just speak Spanglish, Spanish with lots of English words and expressions. The next stage for the latter and their children is full assimilation into the dominant linguistic community: English speakers.

I think you are right about "Spanglish".

I grew up with a lot of Hispanic immigrants and they did/do speak "Spanglish".

This is a fine example of languages mixing together.

[dhYTvlAv]

Yes & No.
There are communities especially in parts of Texas, California & New Mexico where the latino community does not need to learn much english.

Kids in school are learning more spanish in the U.S & for jobs we are learning more spanish.

Thing is more & more latinos are becoming a majority. So eventually I think there will be a breaking point where there are more latinos than whites. At that point spanish could potentially become dominant over english.

I suspect many of those jobs are social work related jobs. Spanish speaking communities can create some little language islands in the USA, it's true, but just like some Americans are learning Spanish or Chinese, as they are important well-spread languages, those Hispanics will assimilate into the Anglo community because of its strengh in due time. It will take as many as 4 generations in some cases.

---------- Post added 2010-08-24 at 23:37 ----------

(Poor) Grammar has nothing to do with language structure? ~ really??

Europa has been infighting since forever. I doubt it will stop anytime soon. For a good example, I just cite how Finns hate Russians and take every opportunity to argue about their roots everyday. They are not going to stop anytime soon. In fact, Europeans killed each-other all the time during the Middle Ages over more mundane & trivial issues.

Europeans are clan-dominated, and still very nationalistic (despite Globalism)…



I do not think these languages will spread on the world-stage without major shifts in empirical power. Unless there were any type of "Brazilian Empire" within the next three centuries… nobody cares about South Amerika, or Australia. They are "just there, doing their thing".



Very easy between English and Chinese: economic trade wars.

This already has begun a decade ago, between Japan, US, and China…



I think you are right about "Spanglish".

I grew up with a lot of Hispanic immigrants and they did/do speak "Spanglish".

This is a fine example of languages mixing together.

"hi lul, how r u 2day? me im gud, wut r u doin l8r?" This is grammatically perfect English. I can't find a single difference of grammar between that sentence and this one: "hi lul (

[freeprescriptionplanrrx]

Wow, somebody who actually thinks Spanish is simple!

Not even I do, not at all

But now Mexico public schools include English. So we are assimilating!

Spanish really is rather easy. Generally everything sounds how it is spelled.

Not like English where they tell you I before E exept after C.

Then you have words like Height & Weight which don't have a C in them. Even though both are EI they make a different sound each time.

Spanish does not seem to have this sort of non sense.

---------- Post added 2010-08-24 at 21:48 ----------

A very large number of Asians already can speak English in-addition to Chinese or Japanese or Korean.

But having dual-languages necessarily does not mean that one of them (Chinese for example) is going to go extinct or even drop from common usage.



Good point, I hadn't thought about that.

A "simple" language would be easiest and most-accessible to the largest amount of people. So Spanish could spread as a language through this route. English and Spanish are both Latin-derived, though very separate now.

If your point is true, which it seems so, then the "simple" languages should spread amongst people who need an "easy" language to communicate to each-other. I do think different languages reflect advanced or non-advanced variables which coincide with technological, social, cultural progress, etc.

I was told a fact that 'English' and 'German' had the most words of all languages in the world. Anyone confirm/deny?? If true then there is a definite correlation between word-amount within a given language and physical-conceptual structures of the brain…


(Poor) Grammar has nothing to do with language structure? ~ really??

1337-speak does affect (Amerikanized-English) language…?

I disagree.



I agree.



I guess the EU probably will remain multi-lingual and its adherents prominently will speak anywhere between 3-5 different languages, especially including: English, French, and German. Any other languages will compete for cultural (and economic) superiority.

Europa has been infighting since forever. I doubt it will stop anytime soon. For a good example, I just cite how Finns hate Russians and take every opportunity to argue about their roots everyday. They are not going to stop anytime soon. In fact, Europeans killed each-other all the time during the Middle Ages over more mundane & trivial issues.

Europeans are clan-dominated, and still very nationalistic (despite Globalism)…



I do not think these languages will spread on the world-stage without major shifts in empirical power. Unless there were any type of "Brazilian Empire" within the next three centuries… nobody cares about South Amerika, or Australia. They are "just there, doing their thing".



Very easy between English and Chinese: economic trade wars.

This already has begun a decade ago, between Japan, US, and China…



I think you are right about "Spanglish".

I grew up with a lot of Hispanic immigrants and they did/do speak "Spanglish".

This is a fine example of languages mixing together.

Yes, If you think about it the two largest european languages are English & Spanish.

Thing is Spanish populations are growing & even taking over the U.S.

So essentiallyh more & more Spanish is heading towards the dominant European language by outnumbering other European languages.

With it being simplistic it makes it easier for people to learn & therefor a wider amount of people can learn it across the populations.

---------- Post added 2010-08-24 at 21:49 ----------

[quote]I suspect many of those jobs are social work related jobs. Spanish speaking communities can create some little language islands in the USA, it's true, but just like some Americans are learning Spanish or Chinese, as they are important well-spread languages, those Hispanics will assimilate into the Anglo community because of its strengh in due time. It will take as many as 4 generations in some cases.

---------- Post added 2010-08-24 at 23:37 ----------



"hi lul, how r u 2day? me im gud, wut r u doin l8r?" This is grammatically perfect English. I can't find a single difference of grammar between that sentence and this one: "hi lul (

[soryalomop]

Spanish really is rather easy. Generally everything sounds how it is spelled.

Not like English where they tell you I before E exept after C.

Then you have words like Height & Weigth which don't have a C in them. Even though both are EI they make a different sound each time.

Spanish does not seem to have this sort of non sense.

Yes, but what about conjugation?

For example: to go - Ir

I go - voy
You go- vas/va
He/She goes - va
We go - vamos
They go - van

And...

I'd go - irÃ*a
We'd go iriamos

And...

I'll go Iré

Doesn't that sounds complicated?

[jamemeveRhype]

Spanish really is rather easy. Generally everything sounds how it is spelled.

Not like English where they tell you I before E exept after C.

Then you have words like Height & Weight which don't have a C in them. Even though both are EI they make a different sound each time.

Spanish does not seem to have this sort of non sense.

Spanish spelling is easy compared to English spelling. Chinese on the other hand...

[Smeaphvalialm]

I think in the countries surrounding China (countries in east and southeast Asia) you'll see more people learning the language; in fact I think to some extent that is already happening today. But in the rest of the world English will hold its ground. China is still a middle income country, the U.S. is light years ahead. It will take many decades before China can get to where the U.S. is in terms of global influence and the U.S won't stand still for those decades. Historically China has never tried to export its culture beyond its immediate sphere of influence. It remains to be seen if this way of doing things will be true of 21st century China as well.

China is making worldwide progress because it is below or middle income country. it has potential to create good and cheap technology and does just that. this is the strongest hand to play with in modern economy.

historically china had few options to export its culture but these barriers are gone today.

the US is losing ground because people and politicians still live in kind of star war age. and of course because everyone wants to keep its standard of living at all costs. there is no escape from this trap but through global politics. the Chinese will be dealing cards soon, probably, because they have more options to barter with.

[DumErrory]

China is making worldwide progress because it is below or middle income country. it has potential to create good and cheap technology and does just that. this is the strongest hand to play with in modern economy.

historically china had few options to export its culture but these barriers are gone today.

the US is losing ground because people and politicians still live in kind of star war age. and of course because everyone wants to keep its standard of living at all costs. there is no escape from this trap but through global politics. the Chinese will be dealing cards soon, probably, because they have more options to barter with.

Yes China does have a lot of potential to grow and will do so in the next few decades. The technology is there, the cheap labor is there...it just needs to catch up. Actually China did have a chance to expand its influence in the 1400's but chose to isolate itself as a matter of policy. In the next few decades it will definitely exert its power on neighboring countries and might even attempt to project its power on a global scale. I don't think the U.S. is somehow falling behind other countries. The U.S. is a developed economy at the forefront of innovation. As a developed country it can only hope to grow 2-4% per year whereas developing countries like China grow faster because they're simply catching up...the gap is bound to narrow.

[Vodonaeva]

China is making worldwide progress because it is below or middle income country. it has potential to create good and cheap technology and does just that. this is the strongest hand to play with in modern economy.

historically china had few options to export its culture but these barriers are gone today.

the US is losing ground because people and politicians still live in kind of star war age. and of course because everyone wants to keep its standard of living at all costs. there is no escape from this trap but through global politics. the Chinese will be dealing cards soon, probably, because they have more options to barter with.

China is overrated, it is the same USSR model, a strong government and a weak population.

1) Chinese middle class income is USD7000 to USD50000, there are some rich but not a significant population.

2) Real state bubble, just like the US

3) When China move to a better life standard it will fall, cause they success is based on cheap workforce + oppression.

4) Everything relies in the central government, if it falls everything will fall.

5) Corruption.

Few years ago people said the future is in Japan, and what happened, you will see ten years from now people will say the future is India, and then it will take time to South America and so on.
About the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India China) countries nowadays, only India and Brazil are doing the right.


We will move to a multipolar world and the lingua franca will be English cause is easy, English is the "metric system of the languages".

[DoctorBeny]

Yes China does have a lot of potential to grow and will do so in the next few decades. The technology is there, the cheap labor is there...it just needs to catch up. Actually China did have a chance to expand its influence in the 1400's but chose to isolate itself as a matter of policy. In the next few decades it will definitely exert its power on neighboring countries and might even attempt to project its power on a global scale. I don't think the U.S. is somehow falling behind other countries. The U.S. is a developed economy at the forefront of innovation. As a developed country it can only hope to grow 2-4% per year whereas developing countries like China grow faster because they're simply catching up...the gap is bound to narrow.

In the 1980's people thought Japan would continue to grow at incredible rates and this century would be theirs...but alas, conditions change and innovation is not as easy as it seems and without it, nobody can really break new ground in growth.

Not many people bothered to learn Japanese then so I don't think anyone will bother to learn Chinese on any sort of epic scale like they do english.

China will NEVER be innovators of style, art or culture...they just do not have the "cool" factor.

[Caursedus]

In the 1980's people thought Japan would continue to grow at incredible rates and this century would be theirs...but alas, conditions change and innovation is not as easy as it seems and without it, nobody can really break new ground in growth.

Not many people bothered to learn Japanese then so I don't think anyone will bother to learn Chinese on any sort of epic scale like they do english.

China will NEVER be innovators of style, art or culture...they just do not have the "cool" factor.

My guess is that China will grow rapidly for another decade or so; once it becomes an upper-middle income country its growth rate will slow down to 4-6% a year.

[Grieryaliny]

My guess is that China will grow rapidly for another decade or so; once it becomes an upper-middle income country its growth rate will slow down to 4-6% a year.

Cosign!

THEN we will see how sturdy their totalitarian system really is as the wealthy and middle classes stop putting up with having no say.

[Indoendris]

No, not only is it a harsh language but it is dissimilar (as an example, English was easily spread because of colonization, Arabic because of its similarity with other Afrasan and so on... The Sinitic family is relatively isolated to say the least, so an expansion of Chinese would not be as quick as Arabic and most Chinese have been [like the Russians] reluctant to colonization so far [as long as it leaves the continent]).

What's happening in Africa or Brazil cannot be compared to colonization, the only correlation could eventually be that of the USSR's influence on Baathist countries (and, why not; all other "non-aligned" countries) during the "cold" war.

So no, unless things shift greatly; I do not see people learning Chinese through interest of it becoming a new lingua franca... Some do it, but out of fashion, and we know what this means don't we:



-Dixit Oscar Wilde.

Exactly. Unless the Chinese force Mandarin on the rest of the world like Europeans did in the rest of the world during the 17th century and onwards, the majority won't learn it voluntarily unless the benefits somehow vastly outweight the effort in the near future. The Chinese would also need to drop that cumbersome pictograph-based writing system of theirs and switch to an alphabet, it would make learning their languages much easier.

[iklostardinn]

Not all Chinese can speak Mandarin, some speak Cantonese. The actual PM is the first who dominate both languages.