Origin of kha vs khrup
 

I think this is more a cultural than a language question: My 4-year old granddaughter was needling me why men use khrup and women kha. "That's the way it is" wasn't enough for her. To explain it was cultural wasn't going to work for a 4-year old either. She is at an age where she needs a story.

Any thoughts?

kha or khrup (short khup) is attached to speech quite often as an expression of politeness

sabeidee mai kha
bpai nai kha
kawp khun khrup
an nee tao rai kha

to give some examples

but why use an ending at all and why is it different for men and women like chan and pom

I know more knowledgeable members will jump in to present a more intelligent answer than mine. But for the meantime, may I point out that in some cases "kha" is also used by males, and "khrup" by females. I have experienced that a few times.

I always thought that the word Sawasdee Kha is derived from a Sanskrit word,Swastika.

Also when speaking as a male to little female children, I hear quite often the usage of "Kha" from male speakers - the purpose of course is that the little female children get used to the female polite particle and start using it themselves.

Female teenagers tend nowadays to use "Khrup" quite often, for them it sounds cute and trendy and they want to break out of the norms; most of the time they even use "Khrup Phom".

Norb, different languages have peculiarities of their own. I think this is such a peculiarity of the Thai language.

In Hindi, 'Haam' is yes. When speaking to superiors, they always say 'Haamji'. 'Ji' is for courtesy or respect. 'Ji' is as commonly used in Hindi as 'kha' and 'krup' in Thai.

Similarly, 'ko' is added at the end of verbs in my own spoken native language to indicate politeness or courtesy.

In the English language, when you say 'you should not do bad things', it can also mean we should not do bad things in general. Such generalisation is not possible in my native language.

I recall how this peculiarity in English once landed me in trouble!

But I just don't know how to explain this to a 4-year old.

That's new to me about female teenagers.

When a man says "khup phom" isn't that equivalent to the German "Jawohl" or English "Yes, sir" or "Yes, mam"? Nobody ever explained that to me but that is what I sensed when I heard it.

The female Thai singer Palmy uses Kubbbb instead of Ka quite often, even when writing.

Other than ¢ÍÃѺ being the original form of ¤ÃѺ, I'm not too sure about ¤èÐ

No, Sawasdee Kha is two words, the word Sawasdee is derived from the Sanskrit "Svasti" meaning "well-being".

David

My understanding is when a male says Khrab Phom, it cam frome the old, old days when you would use this to someone of higer status, basically saying your hair/head is lower than low, that you would permit them to walk on your hair/head. I think it is a hyper-humble, obsequieous phrase. I read about this a long time ago and angry that I can;t remember it verbatim >:(

And I agree with djaidee, I heard a doctor saying this to my daughter when he was talking to her, I enquired why and he explained that is the reason. I thought he was gay, as the gay men I talk to say kha, as the lesbians sometimes say khrap...

I was told that gay men say 'ha' not 'kha'.

David

Maybe, but they said 'kha' to me...

Now I'm really curious. I have a friend who uses 'ha' when he talks to his superior and he says that's an informal way of speaking. http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/images/smilies/rock.gif

Well, that's Gra Phom ¡ÃмÁ, which is an older form of ¼Á, more polite as well. It is different from Krap Phom ¤ÃѺ¼Á

Krap Phom is very similar to Yes Sir, or Yes M'am.

And you can also end up with a highly polite, but probably high-brow sounding ¢ÍÃѺ¡ÃмÁ Kor Rap Gra Phom

It is an informal way of speaking. My very straight sister-in-law uses 'ha', and has done so for at least the many years I have known her.
That doesn't mean it hasn't been adopted by other groups.

It's not the same word.

its Ha ( first tone) use for informal khrup/kha and Ha ( third tone) used by gays.

I think that ÎÐ 'ha' (high tone), is a less formal ¤Ð/¤ÃѺ 'kha' (high tone)/ 'khrap' (high tone) and ÎèÐ 'ha' (falling tone) is a less formal '¤èÐ' (falling tone).

For those of you that are unaware there are two 'kha' polite particles. ¤Ð 'kha' (high tone), is generally used at the end of questions and ¤èÐ 'kha' (falling tone), at the end of statements.