[KimLinbert]

So how to you account for the Korean being on the US team last 13WKC? A fluke? Because Korea doesn't have the rich tradition of kendo like Japan. His father probably wasn't a sensei, and wouldn't have gone to Japan. I could be wrong on this, but I think it proves the point.

I think you are wrong. Korea has lots of kendo/kumdo. They won the 13th WKC.

And how do you account for Japanese team losing to US team while the Japanese team has probably more of influence from heritage? I know it is one incident to happen, but you can't argue that majority of success is based purely on heritage factor. Who said that it was based "purely on heritage"? I think Neil had some really valid points.

[SawbasyWrab]

So how to you account for the Korean being on the US team last 13WKC? A fluke? Because Korea doesn't have the rich tradition of kendo like Japan. His father probably wasn't a sensei, and wouldn't have gone to Japan. I could be wrong on this, but I think it proves the point.

Your logic is faulty. One exception doesn't prove the point. The Canadian team has Matthew Raymond, and I still think I have a valid point.

Also, if you're talking about the Yang brothers, regardless of their heritage, they have been playing since they were kids, AFAIK. When we get to the situation where kids start early and get lots of experience young, regardless of their heritage, then we'll see more people from different backgrounds making the team.
And how do you account for Japanese team losing to US team while the Japanese team has probably more of influence from heritage? I know it is one incident to happen, but you can't argue that majority of success is based purely on heritage factor. I didn't argue that the majority of success is purely heritage - you aren't reading my words accurately. I say it's a strong contribution. Also strongly contributing are those guys incredible hard work and devotion to the team, and the excellent coaching and support they receive. Another issue is living in an area with lots of chances to train and compete, which is why you see so many US team guys from SoCal and so many Canadians from Vancouver and Toronto. There's lots of reasons for their success, but to ignore the contribution of their heritage seems a little blind to me.

[Wachearex]

Yeah he does have valid points. I know there's a lot of kumdo schools in Korea, but not inveterated ones like in Japan.
All I am saying is effort that you put into kumdo can amount to a lot obviously. If someone who practices as hard as a Japanese with 'connections' (i.e. having father as sensei, trips to Japan), then he probably won't be doing as good because of that influence. But not all Japanese may have that kind of connection, you know. I don't know how many of them in US team had that kind of connection, but I'd hate to say all of them.

I didn't argue that the majority of success is purely heritage - you aren't reading my words accurately. I say it's a strong contribution. Also strongly contributing are those guys incredible hard work and devotion to the team, and the excellent coaching and support they receive. Another issue is living in an area with lots of chances to train and compete, which is why you see so many US team guys from SoCal and so many Canadians from Vancouver and Toronto. There's lots of reasons for their success, but to ignore the contribution of their heritage seems a little blind to me.

That's basically what I wanted to say.

[DeronBoltonRen]

I don't know how many of them in US team had that kind of connection, but I'd hate to say all of them.

I don't know the US team all that well. On the Canadian side, of the men 8/9 are of Japanese heritage, and 5 of those are sensei's sons. For the women, all 7 are of Japanese heritage and 5 of them are sensei's daughters. I guess this is all just a coincidence.

[Dndjzirw]

He did say he was joking. But I also think it's true that the US (and Canadian) team's Japanese heritage has a lot to do with their success.

He knows I know he's pulling the leg....

Seriously though, while I do agree that one's background does have very strong influence in the way you describe below - I think it's a really hard thing to be born here, live here, not really speak Japanese and STILL get accused of playing for the other team (even in jest). I imagine it's the same in Canada and for people with Korean, Chinese etc. backgrounds as well.

For example, my sister-in-law was born in San Diego, her parents in Fresno and Sacramento (who, for a while, lived in Manzanar CA, and Poston UT courtesy of the US Govt - because of how they looked).

It kills me to see the times when on the one hand, non-asian folks will assume she knows all things Japanese (like the language) because of her looks and on the other hand, when Japanese folks make the same assumption and then, realizing she does not speak the language she gets the "so sorry..." and soto-voce "ah, face only" comments they think she does not understand as they walk away.

Her vengance is my neice Jennifer, who, in a few years time will be giving the SoCal kenshi fits if she keeps it up.

"If he claims to be an American..." - wow.

[ehib8yPc]

On the Canadian side, of the men 8/9 are of Japanese heritage

And the 9th is a beast who eats babies for breakfast.




Okay...that may be overstating it a bit, but he IS a big fella!

[OccabsLam]

One must give the Japanese their due. The art has its origin there and the Japanese are WAY serious about. To my knowledge there aren't too many Jr. High School kids in the U.S. who are studying kendo as part of the gym/phys ed requirements.

Given their culture, their history, and their national pride, all in all I think the Japanese have the edge over the rest of the world. But what's great about any international competition is that on any given day... you never know. The Korenas are fabulous and very serious and hard working. Some of my kumdo friends train scary hard, and A LOT.

But I also don't think the great showing by the U.S. iteam n Taiwan was a fluke. The fact is that they outfought the Japanese team that day, and outfought everyone except the Koreans. But as has been mentioned already, that was only one competition. But, it WAS the big one.

[CesseOveldset]

But I also don't think the great showing by the U.S. iteam n Taiwan was a fluke. The fact is that they outfought the Japanese team that day, and outfought everyone except the Koreans. But as has been mentioned already, that was only one competition. But, it WAS the big one.

Well said. Anyone can win or lose on any given day.

[staisacic]

To add to Neil's points about heritage, I think another factor is that kendo isn't as well known. I've been to several dojos and dojangs to watch, and none of them really had a diverse group. Just about all of them were either Korean or Japanese descent. The people with Japanese/Korean parents knew about kendo/kumdo, so they were sent as little kids. The others who had parents that did not know about kendo/kumdo are more likely to start at a later age. Our dojang always gets these kids who doesn't know anything about kumdo, but they come because their parents knew about it. The parents often have no idea how kumdo really works, but they saw it at their schools and know that it exists.

[pushokalex1]

As for which country i believe has the strongest players...Definately Japan & Korea. Mainly because they pretty much have profesional practioneers: guys that get paid to eat, sleep & live kendo 7 days a week. although I believe the US Team is the greatest--they inspire me!

As for heritage, it doesn't matter. they may be japanese or korean by descent but they are pretty much US peeps and no different than someone of European, Latin or African descent. I have played some US americans of asian descent that aren't good, and some that wipe the floor with you. but I have also seen White kendo peeps that kick butt too. its all in the person not the genetics.

[FredderiK]

So, if you are the son of a sensei who is a Japanese immigrant, and have been receiving direct instruction from him since you were 3, and have had the opportunity to train in Japan, possibly while you were attending high school or college or maybe with a police dojo for a year or two, then this is not an advantage? Or there are others who are not maybe sensei's sons, but they are still in that community, placed in the dojo by their parents at an early age, exposed to all that good instruction early and often and furthermore understanding it because they speak the language - this is not also an advantage?

Don't get me wrong - these team members are definitely Americans or Canadians and I'm proud to have them representing their countries. But don't fool yourself - there's a reason why the Japanese names keep cropping up.

haha don't worry. just wait until your kid grows up. Who probably will be a beast if he/she have interest in it.

Yang brothers are chinese btw... I think (pretty sure), the older one used to go to georgetown, so a lot of people here in DC knows him. Yang as last name isn't that chinese character in korean either.

[jinnamys]

its all in the person not the genetics.

Absolutely, and I wasn't arguing for genetics - it's more about cultural background than anything else.

[rarpAcconavox]

This is a rather disrepectful question.

Having a Japanese lastname does not make one Japanese.

Just look at McDonalds - are they Scottish?

Probably, the food is awful from either.

( don't bother getting all excitable - in laws are Jockanese)

[EarnestKS]

Deep Fried HAGGIS!

Mmmm! Nice.

[spamkillerf]

Probably, the food is awful from either.

( don't bother getting all excitable - in laws are Jockanese)

I have not experienced it myself, but I've gotten the impression that food is not what you do best on that little island of yours

[Chubrehege]

I have not experienced it myself, but I've gotten the impression that food is not what you do best on that little island of yours

They've got Gordon f***ing Ramsay, for f***s sake. How could the possibly have bad f***ing food in f***ing England with f***ing Gordon f***ing Ramsay on the f***ing team?

(oh, jeeze, did I just write that?)

[Lictimind]

sorry about that, Neil...I choose the wrong word. You are right: heritage instead of genetics.

[Rapiddude]

AUSTRALIA!

Nah, obviously Japan is the strongest.

[bestgenpower]

I have not experienced it myself, but I've gotten the impression that food is not what you do best on that little island of yours

Too right. That is why our beer is so chuffin' good - so we're always too pissed to notice how crap the food is.