[halfstreet]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071029...neducationwwii

well.. i don't understand either side. what's wrong with standing up for national anthem, and what's up with taking down the names? just out of respect, i always remain standing when i hear national anthems..

pete

[meencegic]

My wife shares the sentiment that her country needs a new anthem as well as a new flag.
As much of a patriot as she is, her feeling is that the lines which call for and worship of the Emperor, even in stanza harkens to a era of past militarism which Japan no longer embraces.
Her vote is for a symbol more representative of the more "modern" Japan, such as a Tsuru (Crane) or something of that nature.
As far as I know, The Red and White on the current flag is representative of the Shinto creation myth, Izanagi/Izanami etc...and has past nationalistic iconography.

Why take names, and why would anyone fight for keeping such symbols of Japan's past alive?

One phrase:
The Ultra Conservative Right Wing.

[Imiweevierm]

I think that all of this fuss about flags and anthems can by summed up be the late, great Mr Bill Hicks.

"My Daddy died for that flag!"
Yeah? I bought mine.
"My Daddy died in the Korean war for that flag!"
Wow, mine's made in Korea! The world is *this* big!
A flag, is a piece of cloth, What that flag stands for is important, not the flag itself.

We should get rid of flags and politicians replace them with pictures of their parents fucking. Let's people gather round the image of their mom's four by four butt" (apologies to the great man for fucking around with his routine)

[asypecresty]

As far as I know, The Red and White on the current flag is representative of the Shinto creation myth, Izanagi/Izanami etc...and has past nationalistic iconography.

Incorrect. The hinomaru was created by Shimadzu Nariakira as a symbol to adorne a warship called the Shohei Maru ( 昇平丸 ). The design was originally based upon the shape of the Shimadzu maru-ju kamon, however a circular disc has been seen on various banners since the time of the first Mongol invasion.

http://www.pref.kagoshima.jp/pr/gaiy.../hinomaru.html

[alecaf]

My wife shares the sentiment that her country needs a new anthem as well as a new flag.
As much of a patriot as she is, her feeling is that the lines which call for and worship of the Emperor, even in stanza harkens to a era of past militarism which Japan no longer embraces.
Her vote is for a symbol more representative of the more "modern" Japan, such as a Tsuru (Crane) or something of that nature.
As far as I know, The Red and White on the current flag is representative of the Shinto creation myth, Izanagi/Izanami etc...and has past nationalistic iconography.

Why take names, and why would anyone fight for keeping such symbols of Japan's past alive?

One phrase:
The Ultra Conservative Right Wing.

Currently some nationalistic ideas are resurfacing. Some people are wanting to reinstate the military and return control of Japans defense to Japan. Others still strongly oppose this. I can understand both points of view. The pro side basically feels like they've been kick around and placated by an outside source. Now they want their dignity back. The other side remembers that Japan is the only country in the world to be attacked with nuclear weapons and they abhore violence and would prefer to keep the peace no matter what it may cost them personally. It's not a happy topic.

There was also talk of adding a nuclear arsenal to Japans defense when North Korea detonated their device. That didn't go over too well. Some people I've talked to here think that Japan should show the strongest opposition to nuclear arms in the world. I can agree with them. No one else knows what it can do to a country like they do.

As for the national anthem deal, well most countries go through problems with personal rights. This is just one of those. I remember when the Lords prayer was removed from public schools in Canada. That was huge, but after a while everything calmed down. The Japanese national anthem issue will be resolved and hopefully in a way that is fair to everyone.

[ddwayspd]

Incorrect. The hinomaru was created by Shimadzu Nariakira as a symbol to adorne a warship called the Shohei Maru ( 昇平丸 ). The design was originally based upon the shape of the Shimadzu maru-ju kamon, however a circular disc has been seen on various banners since the time of the first Mongol invasion.

http://www.pref.kagoshima.jp/pr/gaiy.../hinomaru.html

If you'll note, I did not mention the historical design of the flag, but rather the colors.
The colors Red and White have been used historically in Shinto symbolism.
The current flag is linked to past and current nationalism. That is fact.
Therefore my response was correct.

No soup for you.

[LeslieMoran]

My point was that the flag design predates the Meiji period Shinto craziness and burning of Buddhist temples. I suppose you could say Shinto shrines are linked to past nationalism as well.

Anyway I see your point, but I don't think the flag should be changed. The St. George's Cross is associated with nationalism and racism by some people, but I don't see it that way. In some parts of the world the Stars and Stripes is seen as a sign of oppression. To most sensible people these days the hinomaru is simply a sign which represents Japan. To change the attitudes of radical nationalist morons will take a great deal more than redesigning the flag.

Besides I find them quite amusing driving round in their big black vans.

What kind of soup?

[CymnMaync]

I suppose you could say Shinto shrines are linked to past nationalism as well.

Atarimae.
LOL

To most sensible people these days the hinomaru is simply a sign which represents Japan.

So are you saying that any Japanese who see the Japanese flag as *not* simply a sign, but rather an inappropriate sign by which to represents modern Japan, are not being sensible?

What kind of soup?

Neko Consume of course.

[Jourgenz]

So are you saying that any Japanese who see the Japanese flag as *not* simply a sign, but rather an inappropriate sign by which to represents modern Japan, are not being sensible?

No I'm not saying that. I was making reference to Japanese people who do not hold or support extreme nationalist ideals. If the majority of Japanese people felt that the hinomaru was an antiquated sign of nationalism, they would change it wouldn't they?

Anyway I think it's more important to deal with real issues rather than perceived ones. The fact of the matter is that it's opinions and actions that count, not symbolism.

http://www.debito.org/handout.html

[quorceopporce]

http://www.debito.org/handout.html

Precisely the point my wife was trying to make; (and kudos for linking to this BTW) In that the flag is a symbol which has represented the intolerant and haughty attitudes of the old Japan (In her mind I suppose anyway) and fresh new symbolism means fresh new determination she says.

~Of course there's much to be said for new symbolism without new actions to back it up.

[WepKeyday]

My wife shares the sentiment that her country needs a new anthem as well as a new flag.

The sooner we get rid of countries and flags and patriotism and religion the better off we will all be.

[AncewwewBus]

The sooner we get rid of countries and flags and patriotism and religion the better off we will all be.

We can only do that when the alien invade us, as it is proof in many movies

[huylibizonoff]

The sooner we get rid of countries and flags and patriotism and religion the better off we will all be.

50,000 years of humanity and still we have these things....probably stuck with them.

[VodsNittats]

The sooner we get rid of countries and flags and patriotism and religion the better off we will all be.

Or perhaps look deeper and realize that there is something deeper that will use these things things to as camouflage. There will always be things to hide behind as we seek to gain and maintain power and money. Ironic that we blame those things that, if we examined them, would find that they are in direct conflict with what the person is hiding behind them for.

Perhaps we should just address the underlying problem of greed and selfishness. On the other hand, we could just do away with the camouflage and just live in a society where the greed and selfishness is the norm and plain for all to see and call it a life.

[tevyrefficy]

The sooner we get rid of countries and flags and patriotism and religion the better off we will all be. The first nation that does that will be the first to fall. Why should anyone go into the military or law enforcement if they feel that way? All this talk these days about changing the US pledge of allegiance and stuff is ridiculous. Just because it has a Christian reference doesn't mean it should be changed. If the founding fathers had known about this talk about changing everything they probably would've made a rule that none of rules can be changed. They gave the future generations the benefit of the doubt however and we should live up to their trust. In fact if you think about it if the founding fathers were alive today they would be the most right wing people alive.

[pharweqto]

http://www.comeandtakeit.com/med1.gif

hehe

[lXvtm0ox]

. . .Just because it has a Christian reference doesn't mean it should be changed . . .

They specifically and intentionally left christianity out of it. Go read up on Thomas Jefferson.

[ReneCM]

Japan is going to start fingerprinting and taking pictures of any foreign national who steps foot on their soil, starting in 3 weeks. This has been in the works for some time now.

Recently, a government minister came up with a great rationale.

This country has a lot of issues when it comes to dealing with foreign countries and people.

[CruzIzabella]

They specifically and intentionally left christianity out of it. Go read up on Thomas Jefferson.

something about the separation of church and state I believe.

[nAKMzyBN]

Japan is going to start fingerprinting and taking pictures of any foreign national who steps foot on their soil, starting in 3 weeks. This has been in the works for some time now.

Recently, a government minister came up with a great rationale.

This country has a lot of issues when it comes to dealing with foreign countries and people.

That's a huge step backward! So how do they plan to get all us dirty foreigners who are already here to line up and be 'processed'?