stinkyKote:

True, I have never seen a woman nito player, but I have ran into a couple that play jodan. Most were quite scary.

Nice name!

This is a great thread! Would some of the guys in Japan talk about Jodan and Nito. Stuff like how and how much they are taught? How many people do them? And, generally, what the other kendo players and sensei think of people doing them?

I have been trying jodan for a while, I agree, very hard.

The comment about the right hand was a helpful insight. Thanks.

Heya Richard...

heheh.. yeah.. just to bust inner_cent's cover... he trains at Fudoshin as well.....
HE'S MY BROTHER... HHAHAHA...:P

Hmm... I don't think Jodan will help if you are injured. Since you are pushing off with your right foot, you will put a lot of strain on it. Jodan is a highly agressive kamae, having to contend with a injured right shoulder or foot may not be a good idea.

If you feel like, you can make your own shoto shinai from a broken 37 shinai (as long as the break is at the monouchi).

Jodan footwork makes you realize what beginners feel like when they practice ashi-sabaki.

The swing in jodan requires you to use both arms even though the stike may be one handed. The right arm launches the shinai with the left arm in the beginning of the motion and then the strike is controlled with the left hand. If you are trying to strike with only your left arm, it will not be as sharp. Hopefully this makes sense, my explanation may not be clear.

Hey Tim, is that you kono?!

oh, and shoto can't score a point, period

Originally posted by Kendoka


Hi Innercent, we were at the same seminar !

Richard
I know !!! Richard, I know who you are, but not sure you know who I am :P haaha

Originally posted by Kendoka


Toda Sensei explained that it was possible to cut with the shoto (of course) as one would, if fighting with two swords. A tsuki with the shoto when in close is a joy to receive (!)

But, the original question was about scoring in shiai. He did emphasise that cuts made with the shoto would not be awarded a point in shiai.

Richard Toda sensei did highlight those point you have mentioned. Most of time, shoto are purely for defences, and for "freaking" the opponent out (eg. tsuki with a shoto, not a valid point but damn shocking for the oppponent's moral). But he did mentioned, if nito player uses his daito, somehow, pushed and surpprese the opponent's daito to the side (literately to the side), and hold it there, Shoto can score a point with it. But this is still under debate.

But look at the reality, how often do you think you can push and hold down opponent's shinai to the side with only one hand ? and then try to score a point with the other ?

Hard. I'm still trying to get that stingin' type motion that I see most experienced jodan fighters perform, it's a muscular factor I think. Also the sync of left feet stamp with katate waza from jodam is difficult to attain, if possible.

Anyway, it's just a hobby for now. I'm sticking to chudan during renshu. i'm very interested in nitoryu also, that's why the questions. It seems that only the guys at e-bogu sell appropriate shoto shinai.

One of the people that I have come to know from the Canadian Kendo team named Matthew uses nito-ryu. Also, because my boyfriend is very interested in using nito, we asked him a lot of questions about it. He started using nito when he was a nidan, but under the supervision of a sensei from Japan when he was there to visit.

As for Jodan, basically the same thing. Nidan and above are usually the only ones that 'technically' should start using Jodan. However, I know a few people that use it at shodan, though I'm not sure it's looked well upon.

Plus, does anyone know in shaku the size of the shoto shinai?

Actually, i don't exactly agree with Richard. recently, Toda sensei came down to Melbourne and taugh us about Nito. He did mention that it is possible to gain a point using shoto. However, the situation has to be very unique (Daito must ensure that the opponent's daito was suppressed ...I think that is what he ment), before Shoto point is counted valid. Even this point, is also a debatable as well. Anyway, the conclusion is, it is possible to score the point with shoto, but not anyhow forget the daito and just fight with shoto ..........

Originally posted by JSchmidt


That was also my initial impression, until I encountered people who knew how to fight against jodan http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...es/biggrin.gif.

Jakob So what is the best way to counter a person using jodan? please enlighten us all...

So, what exactly is a valid point with nito?

Originally posted by qpuppy
Heya Richard...

heheh.. yeah.. just to bust inner_cent's cover... he trains at Fudoshin as well.....
HE'S MY BROTHER... HHAHAHA...:P Hi Qpuppy, I know. he made the mistake of using "inner_cent" in his e-mail address.

R

Jodan is hard!
I am not sure what you mean about the "stingin" motion. If you mean a big, fast (and sore) hit, one way is to throw the shinai down with your right hand. Of course, you should only throw as much as you can control with your left hand.
Sync'ing the motion is hard. Doing fumikomi with the left foot is hard period!

In shiai you can not score by using the shoto, only by correct datotsu with the longer shinai.

Richard

hmmm, here's an interesting one, have you guys ever seen a woman do nitoryu? I've seen a few do Jodan around here, but never Nitoryu-

Originally posted by Will


oh, and shoto can't score a point, period

References please.
I understand this not to be the case.
-Ares2907

A very good exercise for improving Jodan is doing kirikaeshi from jodan. (Not just doing it one handed, but using the right hand to help with every cut and using opposite footwork).
I've 'messed' around a bit with jodan, mainly because I wanted to see what the fuss was about and I did actually learn a few lessons that have been very useful for my chudan.

Jakob

My understanding of Jodan is similar to Richard's: no points with the Shoto - it is only for defense. The valid points in nito are any valid points but with the daito.

Like Akihiro, I am also interested in the other styles within kendo. My experience in asking for instruction is the same as alexpollijr's. And all the people I have known that use jodan or do nito style just started doing it, essentially on their own. They don't get a lot of instruction other than the sensei saying a point was good or not in shiai.