Best camera settings for kendo pics?
 

I'm a terrible photographer, and of course it's the camera's fault... right...

Anyway, I upgraded to a Canon 450D, and am still trying to winkle out the right settings for taking pics of kendo. Standard dojo, off white walls, brown floor, bad lighting that has a tendency to haze everything with brownish yellow.

I pumped the ISO to 1600, cut down the exposure time to 1/50th a second, zoom out as much as possible. That seems to help, but was wondering if there was anything else I could do?

tia,

-Charles Lockhart

I'd go straight to Ralutin. PM him.

The settings depend on what type of photos you want to produce, Actions shots, close ups, artistic etc?

You can try playing arounds with the shutter, aperture and iso levels and see what you get.
In my experience the lens plays one of the most important factors. Get some good glass and you can pretty much take any type of photo you want.

I use a 50mm f1.7 for most of my action shots and a 70-210mm f4 for the closeups and generally anything else. I like to use aperature priority as this will pick the fastest shutter speed for the conditions and generally give a good depth of field or I use shutter priority. I also try and keep the ISO levels below 1600 to avoid the noise

There are a few threads about this already that have some excellent posts and there are some really talented photographers here who can offer better advice than myself - Kenshi, Jschmidt, Xvikingx, Ratulin to name a few

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17129
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18792

cheers
Dave

You'll want to maximize shutter speed vs available light, which can be done the following way:
Raise the ISO to max tolerable level (YMMV and so will your camera).
On my D70, it's 400ISO, 800 if I'm really pushing it. Most newer cameras easily do 1600ISO.
Aperture as wide as possible. (Low f-number). With most zoom lenses, you'll get wider aperture at wider angles, so zooming out can help.

You should aim to be able to use 1/60sec and above. Even if it's still a bit underexposed, you can correct a lot of them in the post-process.

In short, buying fast(er) (low f-number) lenses is the easiest way, but also the most expensive.

Some halls offer enough light that you can get away with f4, others I can just about get away with my f1.4 50mm lens, but in most, my f2.8 50-135mm is a perfect match.

If you want to take kendo pictures, then I recommend getting a 50mm. Even if the Cannon f1.8 isn't the greatest 50mm in the world, it will still greatly improve the pictures you take and it will force you to work a lot more on your composition.
Then get a medium f2.8 zoom lens and you can do most stuff.

What JSchmidt and Shavanni said above. They're damn good photgraphers as well.

Your 450D body will be a little slow (3.5 frames per sec in continuous drive) in taking action shots, but you will be able to catch a couple of good action shots with it, especially in combination with a fast lens (f2.8 or larger aperture). If you want to minimize action blur, you'll need to shoot at 1/250 or faster depending on your lighting conditions and ISO setting. Stopping down (closing) the aperture a step or two can also help in getting a wider depth of field and sharper subjects.

For portraits, you'll most likely will be shooting at slower shutter speeds, especially in low-light, so stay with the continuous drive mode and try to keep your hands still whilst shooting. Also, stop down your aperture, if possible, to obtain a wider depth of field - makes all the difference in capturing the kenshis' facial expressions behind the men-gane.

Aim your focus point(s) at the men-gane, nafuda or white keikogi. Your camera will have a difficult time focusing on blue keikogi/hakama, especially in poor light.

Avoid using flash during taikai.

My photography mentor and kendo head instructor, Kinno sensei, showed me not to be afraid of shooting at high ISO to get less-blurry and brighter action shots. The noise (grain) from high ISO settings can be reduced during post-processing.

Shoot in RAW mode. You'll be able to do more with your photos during post-processing.

As with kendo and iai, your photography should get better with more practice, so shoot as much as you can!

Any other pointers, xvikingx and Kenshi?

Kenshi: Consider this a very rough draft of my upcoming article on kenshi247.net...http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...ilies/wink.gif

I don't see this suggested: Use a tripod.

(Help avoid the shaking hands and need for an IS lens issues)

It'll greatly restrict your ability to move the camera, so I don't recommend it.
At the focal distances used for shooting kendo, lens shake is not really a major issue and since you are going for maximum shutter speed, lens stabilization is probably not worth the extra money.

Good suggestion, but it can be cumbersome when you have to move around shiai-jo(s) and other kenshi during a taikai. A light monopod is a bit more mobile, but still a bit cumbersome.

I tend not to use either unless I'm taking a group shot and I'm in the group.

Tripods are a nightmare to move around and tend to get in everyone's way.
Monopods on the other hand are a lot more useful.

Also, If you get a chance, set your white balance before you start - use a grey card or white piece of paper if you want to use the custom setting. This will avoid the brownish yellow colour you mentioned.

Alternatively you can shoot in raw as Ratulin mentioned and fix it all up later, although post processing can be time consuming so if possible get it right on the day

I've never taken kendo pictures, but plenty of shots in gymnasiums from my high school yearbook days, as well as last year's iaido summer camp...

High ISO and wide apertures help a lot, but I still got some occasional camera shake (gym lighting is awful), so I purchased a monopod and a 70-200mm f/2.8 VR (vibration reduction...yes, I'm one of those Nikon weenies) lens, replacing my 80-200 f/2.8 non-VR, to use next time. It's also hard to meter, so you can use the gray card method (http://www.photography.ca/phototips/meter.html)...the palm of your hand approximates 18% gray, so you don't have to go out and buy anything special for that.

In my experience, setting white balance in the camera rarely works, so I don't bother with it. I just post-process to get rid of it if I really want to.

Hehehehe...if you weren't gonna say it, I was! http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...ilies/wink.gif

One other tip: keep your shoulders close to your body and pointed down while you shoot. It helps to stabilize things.

I had precisely you in mind when I said it. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...es/biggrin.gif

My father also taught me to stand as if I were shooting a rifle, with my left elbow pressed into my side, camera firmly against my face. Exhale, and softly press the shutter at the bottom of your breath. Of course, the breathing thing is easier if you're not taking an action shot...

You shouldn't need a tripod when you're shooting with exposures that short. Most people's hands are steady enough around 1/120 for a tripod-less shot, and if you're trying to get action pictures, you should probably be going for 1/50 or shorter, so shaking hands should not be a problem at all.

I also do the same breathing thing that corwyn mentioned; it helps me a lot, but YMMV...

My main problem at the moment is that I don't have a proper DSLR -- just a Powershot G9. I can't get the picture quality at ISO 800 that people with DSLRs can, unfortunately.

One thing to consider is that action shots don't always have to be super crisp; a bit of blur often adds a nice sense of movement and will also sometimes give your picture a "lucky shot" feel.

Don't forget post-production; if you've got some grainier pictures, you can usually clean those up nicely if you shoot in RAW. Ditto on fixing exposure. Even pictures that look too grainy or ugly can look nice if you adjust levels/saturation and then go for a monochrome scheme in blue or b/w. There are tons of different things you can do in post that will help you recover pictures you thought were crap.

I'm gonna have to disagree with the thought that a tripod or image stabilization is simply unnecessary.

Of course it depends on what you are doing. If you are walking around taking pictures of people then a 50mm lens and 1/60 second shutter will be fine if your hands are steady and your technique good.

However, if you are shooting a match from one of the stands, and so you are further away, then you'll be using a much longer focal length. For a 135mm on a camera like a 450d, you'd probably want to have your camera set to 1/250 or something of that sort. Gym lighting often won't allow for that. Image stabilization generally buys you 1-2 stops, so you can probably get away with 1/90s. That's too slow to freeze movement but at least you won't spoil a shot of people standing in kamae because of unsteady hands.

A tripod or a monopod is another way and the issue of it getting in other people's way is overstated, I think. If you are shooting a match, you probably won't actually be walking around the shiaijo that much. For one, are you really going to be cutting in and out and around the crowd to get in position even without a tripod? Second you're taking a big chance that you won't be in position to shoot when the action happens. More likely you'll find a good spot, set up, and you'll be more or less standing there waiting for the opportunity.

Let me clarify since my offhand tripod suggestion is taking some (reasonable) criticism, but I think you have to consider the whole context.

1. If you are in a position where you think hand shake is going to be an issue, you should think about using a tripod. If you are shooting at high ISO it's not an issue, I agree, but that wasn't the only possibility being suggested. Some people are talking about steadying their hands and breathing right. That suggests to me "use a tripod."

2. In my dojo, you simply could not walk around with a camera (there isn't enough room); you'd be standing on the side anyway, so the difficulty in moving the tripod would not be an issue. But if he's going to be running around taking action shots of keiko, yes, carrying a tripod will be difficult. If all he's doing is trying to get portraits in what might not be great lighting, however, I stand by my suggestion.

3. Yes, a monopod would be easier to move but I don't like them that much and not enough to be worth the hassle. My personal opinion.

Another factor that is being glossed over a bit on this issue of handholding and shutter speed is the camera itself. For example, a Powershot g9 weighs about 11 oz. Last time I tried to seriously shoot at a taikai, I was using a Canon DSLR and 70-200 f/2.8 lens with a total weight of around 77 oz. Note also the lens is about 7.5in long, which hardly helps things. Handholding one is quite a different thing than the other.

I shot most of my team during the provincials, and I have to say, kendoka can be rather hard to nail.

The dark blue uniforms tend to lose their details if you shoot too dark... and the pictures will always be dark if you want more than a bluish blur on your wall.

I have a Nikon D70, mid range in terms of price/preformance. I would suggest getting a hotseat flash and crank it up to max, just make sure you're using the manual shutterspeed and aperture.

To avoid lateral motion, try to catch the kendoka while one is facing away, and one is facing toward you. Action shots are great, but ultimately, I think clarity is more important, so take some shots while they are still, and some shots while they are moving.

Also, aim for the men. You will need the texture and contrast in order to get a target lock.

I'd just like to clarify my response a bit as well...

My friend shoots with a 450D and has no problems with normal pictures from a reasonable distance at 1/100 or faster when just using his hands and reasonable breathing techniques. I've shot concert photos in the dark with weird lighting with my friend's 400D at varying distance with little or no problems at 1/120 and faster. My main camera is, of course, a lighter G9, but I've shot pictures just fine with only my hands on DSLRs.

Of course you use image stabilization, but that's a different animal entirely from using a tripod.

A nice compromise between a tripod and nothing at all is a monopod -- it's easy to just pick up and walk away, but gives you that extra bit of stability you may need if you're shooting with a telephoto lens at a distance.

edit:

I'd veto the flash in most situations... the last thing you want is to get kendoka pissed at you for distracting them by setting off the flash all the time. I've never been to an actual shiai, but most sporting events I've been to have prohibited flashes for just that reason... even bounce flashes.

heh heh, thats my problem as well. Got the cheapest DSLR on the market and use two 2nd hand lenses almost exclusively. If only I could get my hand on the expensive stuff.....

What I suggest Charles is that you go out and shoot some pics... then put them on the web somewhere for the guys here to take a look at. That might give us a bit more space to give advice from.

Remember and check out some great/interesting kendo pictures on the flickr group the ART OF KENDO. If/once you get your skillz up to speed we'd like your photos in there!

Noted.

I agree. At the iaido summer camp, I could only take pictures from the center front of the room during the taikai, meaning that I was a good distance from either pair of competitors (there were two matches going on simultaneously), so I was stuck shooting long distance. With my D200 and an older 80-200 f/2.8 lens, that was difficult to keep steady the whole time. I did a decent job hand-holding most of the time, but if I wasn't paying a lot of attention to steadying the camera, I did get some shake. As a result, I screwed up several shots that would have been great. And given that my tripod weighs a ton and a half, I tend to not want to drag it anywhere I can't drive to. So I bought a light monopod which should give me some leeway in my self-stabilization techniques, and the vibration reduction lens to help when a monopod isn't feasible to use.

Another idea to consider is to use the walls, if they're convenient. If you put your feet in a stable stance and lean up against the wall, you're going to remove most movement from your body, so then you just have to concentrate on your arms/hands.

And since we're all talking about digital photography, just buy more flash memory and take lots of pictures. If 10% of your pictures come out decent and you take 100 shots, you only get 10 pictures. If you take 1000 shots, you'll get 100.

Oh, and I'd definitely leave the flash at home, unless I wanted to piss off the competitors, judges, and/or organizers.