How do you refer to grades?
 

If you're talking to someone who's unfamiliar with martial arts and the Japanese language, but don't have time to explain the whole grading system, how do you refer to your grade?

For example, would you say yondan? Five-dan? Sixth dan? First-degree black belt?

It gets worse with the kyuu grades, since they're usually colors...

I tell them 1st kyu (rather than ikkyu) and say it is the first of the fully recognised grades.

I just say I'm an instructor.

And I just say I'm an enthusiastic beginner.

Someone once pressed me "but what belt is that" and I said "it means I'm testing for a black belt next time I test," but I felt corny after saying it, so now I'm as vague as I can get away with and I say one of the things I like about Kendo is that no one wears colored belts.

That's the problem I've had, too. Or sometimes people equate it to their karate experience and are like "oh, first dan! You're really high!" Explanations just make their eyes glaze over.

Yes, it depends.

I would personally avoid the term "Black belt", well... first because I am Ikkyu, http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...ies/tongue.gif but also because it is a concept known by everyone, including people who are not Martial arts practicioners.
That would therefore sound arrogant/Ninja and something like " Yeah, I am Black Belt third level".

I would rather use the Japanese terms and explain them to what it corresponds level-wise in a humble way, rather than the above.

For people who do Kendo, I let them guess my grade rather than me telling them. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...es/nervous.gif

I then use this explanation - first dan in kendo means about 2 years' experience, so like an orange or maybe green belt in judo (locally - pick whatever rank corresponds to 2 years' experience in what they are familiar with). You can't compare grades directly from one martial art to the next.

But overall I would rather use more general terms. In years past I've described myself as an "advanced beginner", "intermediate", "senior student", "junior instructor" and "assistant instructor", corresponding to dans 1 through 5 respectively.

I yell "Who's the Master" and they respond....Sho Nuff. Now that only works with my dogs as I have no rank in Kendo or Iai. For now. That will change Sunday I hope. AJA I ususally use the Japanese it is our duty as citizens of this earth to educate those around us. I learn daily from my friends and hopefully they learn from me. I am not preachy but i will offer up free info to anyone willing to listen.

And do they believe you?



. . runs for cover . . . http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...es/biggrin.gif

Everyone knows what "dan" means, I thought. Most people just ask how long I've "been doing that," though, which is easy enough to answer.

nice !!!!!

I tell them the only true measure of rank is the number of battlefield kills.

Badass

That the concept is widely known is actually the reason why I use 'black belt' in casual conversation (or when showing off, followed by a long list of my achievements .. there are people where I just can't resist the urge) - it's not accurate at all, but usually they don't really care. *
For people that are really interested in the topic, not just some 'small talk', I usually explain and go into detail (like how often I practice and how long I'm on the mat and ... my long list of my achievements). http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...es/biggrin.gif

(* to geeks, I usually tell I'm a lvl 80 Deathknight Prestigeclass IRL!)

When they ask me my rank I ask them if they know about the dan system and how it works. Surprisingly everybody knows about the dan system. I tell them I'm a Mudan, they are/act amazed and give me compliments and such. http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...ilies/calm.gif


Normally I just explain that in kendo and iaido you start mudan you're gradeless, you can then become 1 kyu, then 1dan what means you showed enough to be considered a beginner that's ready to learn more about kendo/iaido and that the challenge at that point just begins. I also tell them it's not about belts, we don't wear stuff that shows are rank, that technique should be the thing where see the difference between grades and not what colour belt one wears.

Even if they do know the dan system, I don't really want to say I'm "1-dan" simply because it implies a lot more expertise than I have; most people I know who know the dan system are familiar with it from karate, where 1-dan is (I gather) a not-inconsiderable achievement.

I wonder where that impression that it's a not-inconsiderable acheivement comes from. At least over here in Germany, the formal requirements for 'adults' 14+ (minimal waiting times) are pretty aligned:
Kendo ('german' Style)
6. Kyu -- usually 3-6 month
5. Kyu -- 6 month
4. Kyu -- 6 month
3. Kyu -- 6 month
2. Kyu -- 6 month
1. Kyu -- 6 month - 30 month +
1. Dan -- 1 year
etc.

Shotokan Karate
8. Kyu -- 2 month
7. Kyu -- 3 month
6. Kyu -- 3 month
5. Kyu -- 4 month
4. Kyu -- 4 month
3. Kyu -- 6 month
2. Kyu -- 6 month
1. Kyu -- 6 month - 34 month
1. Dan -- 1 year
2. Dan -- 2 years
3. Dan -- 3 years
4. Dan -- 4 years

Judo (14 years+)
8. Kyu -- 3 month
7. Kyu -- 3 month
6. Kyu -- 3 month
5. Kyu -- 3 month
4. Kyu -- 3 month
3. Kyu -- 3 month
2. Kyu -- 6 month
1. Kyu -- 6 month - 30 month
1. Dan -- 2 years
2. Dan -- 3 years
3. Dan -- 4 years
4. Dan -- 5 years (can be shortened by 1 year per dan grade because of competition success, trainer licence etc.)

They do have more 'belts' and more testing, certainly different 'technical' criteria - maybe people generally taking longer to crawl trough the ranks and therefor a lot more than minimum time when reaching shodan? Shotokan and the DJB Judo are certainly the most popular branches over here.

I think other countries use a bit different system, with less kyu-grades and thus perhaps less time to shodan. I know this is the case with iaido and jodo. I believe we Finns actually borrowed the 6 kyu -system from you.

Now I don't know about karate but I've come to understand that (at least in Finland) 1. dan in judo is really quite an achievement and takes a long time (and some tournament success?) whereas I got my kendo shodan at 16 with... questionable skill. Just goes to show that you can't really compare grades between arts and I tend to avoid mentioning that I have "black belts" in two already.

Where I do karate (Sankukai) the grading times are more like:
Adult MINIMUM grading times (under 16's is different from about 3rd kyu onwards and no under 16's 2nd dan onwards).
8th kyu: 8 weeks
7th kyu: 4 months from previous grade
6th kyu: 4 months from previous grade
5th kyu: 4 months from previous grade
4th kyu: 4 months from previous grade
3rd kyu: 4 months from previous grade
2nd kyu: 6 months from previous grade
1st kyu: 6 months from previous grade
1st dan: 6 months from previous grade AND 4 years total training time
2nd dan: 3 years from previous grade
3rd dan: 4 years from previous grade
4th dan: 5 years from previous grade
5th dan: 6 years from ptrevious grade
6th dan: 7 years from previous grade
7th dan: 8 years from previous grade
8th dan: 9 years from previous grade
9th dan: 10 years from previous grade

Germany's an outlier. Most places, shodan starting as an adult is 3 years or less.