[sXVUOUVC]

Toshiro, most of what you are looking for works on the regional federation level, and already exists in the form of the US summercamp. There is really no need to have a separate college events, summer camps, programs, etc. All of this already exists, or if it doesnt, look to another regional federation that has it as a template of the direction to move yours towards.

[poispanna]

Toshiro, most of what you are looking for works on the regional federation level, and already exists in the form of the US summercamp. There is really no need to have a separate college events, summer camps, programs, etc. All of this already exists, or if it doesnt, look to another regional federation that has it as a template of the direction to move yours towards.

Hi ender84567 I've gone to the AUSKF summer camps and strangely the average U.S. Kendoka doesn't know about it or either thinks you have to be a certain rank to attend even though that is not true. Most people in college who don't practice in a dojo that is a member of a regional federation also don't know about the AUSKF or the events. College kids aren't eager enough to cough up money to become AUSKF members are test. So that is why I recommend these events be seperated sort of like the AUSKF reaching out to them. So they can see value in paying annual dues to the AUSKF. I think it was in 2004 in the fall a delegation from the Kanto Student Kendo Federation decided to also come to Yale for like a Friendship Kendo Exchange which was an event for college students and I'm sure overseen by the AUSKF like the Education Tours. Plus it doesn't have to be a 2 day event like U.S. Kendo Camp or necesarrily need 8th Dan from Japan to come down because we have enough 7th Dan that could teach a seminar.

[ensuppono]

It could work just like the college football industry.

Thoughts?

Ask yourself this. Is college football an honest endeavor? Does it promote the values that kendo intends to promote? The answer to that question will show you whether this is really a dream that should be pursued.

Kendo would be ruined by commercialization and popularization. This is not pessimism, it's simply realizing that human greed will prevail. Once a thing becomes popular, it attracts those with money and once that happens, it attracts those with low morals.
None of us want to be a part of that.

[Nundduedola]

While I may still be new to Kendo, I am not new to life. I know that the football business is money-driven. So is wal-mart, the media, politics, which ice cream flavors are made, and most aspects of our lives. It isn't the money that corrupts things, it's the people. When I said that the CKL could be like the college football industry, I meant that we could have collegiate standings, a yearly championship, individual stats, that sort of thing.

Saying that we shouldn't try something because we are afraid of other people corrupting our idea is something I have to disagree with on principle.

We can create something that we can be proud of, and that will make the world of Kendo a better place.

I am not aware of what happened to judo after it got into the olympics, but if it went sour then that is the fault of people. We, knowing the mistakes of the past, should be able to come up with a better system. We should not say that "it didn't work for Judo so we shouldn't even try." We should keep working towards a goal and trying different things. We keep what works and ditch what doesn't.

I wasn't aware of any mainstream movies or such involving kendo. I was thinking the AUSKF or a joint venture between some of the federations could put together a marketing campaign to increase the awareness of Kendo across the nation. I think commercials would be a good investment, and a Kendo movie would help with that too.

Anyway, I am not trying to be confrontational, and I mean no disrespect to anyone here. I look forward to reading everyone's thoughts on this.

[draigenia]

In Australia, we have the University Games. A Kendo competition is included. The unigames are funded by governments and universities. The aim is to increase sport involvement in the university community. Typically they go for four or five days and all the sports that you would expect are included.

So uni kendo players get to compete in a serious kendo competition against othe uni kendo players.

Does the USA have a similar event? If so maybe the US college kendo could become a part of that.

There is also a World level University Games.

[SusanSazzios]

While I may still be new to Kendo, I am not new to life.

We can create something that we can be proud of, and that will make the world of Kendo a better place.

Anyway, I am not trying to be confrontational, and I mean no disrespect to anyone here. I look forward to reading everyone's thoughts on this.

What is the purpose of collegiate kendo training?

What is the purpose of kendo training?

In what context does pride and being proud fit into path that is kendo training?

[XangadsX]

What is the purpose of collegiate kendo training?

What is the purpose of kendo training?

In what context does pride and being proud fit into path that is kendo training?

Ah...you assume that pride is a bad thing. Too much pride, yes, that is bad, but pride itself is not bad. Kendo builds self confidence. Are we agreed on that? How does Kendo build self confidence?

You learn that your own Kendo is just as valid as everyone elses. You learn that finding your own path of Kendo is entirely up to you. You begin to trust yourself, and to believe that you can do this. You begin to take pride in your skill. A little pride is good for you. I agree that too much is bad, of course. If you do not take pride in your work, you will not work as well or as hard as you could. Ask a carpenter if having pride in your work is important. See what he says.

When I say that it is ok to have some pride, and to be proud of your accomplishments, I am not saying that you should take it to the extreme. I believe that no matter how old you are, what skill level you have attained, you can always learn from someone else. If I ever make it to midway up the ladder of Kendo, I will still be learning from everyone I meet. I hope I never get so full of pride that I refuse to learn what others have to teach me.

my 2 cents.

[Kemapreedasse]

Saying that we shouldn't try something because we are afraid of other people corrupting our idea is something I have to disagree with on principle.


We keep what works and ditch what doesn't.

It is unrealistic to think you can succeed where everyone else has failed. You think you're going to do the same thing with kendo that has been done with many other activities and it will somehow turn out different for you? That goes beyond optimism. Maybe you've heard the quote that defines insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
You're also forgetting that kendo is not about the sporting aspects, as enkorat tried to subtly point out to you, kendo is about personal development. You cannot overemphasize the public display of kendo which is what you're discussing, and expect to it to be able to maintain that personal philosophy.

I realize your desire to see kendo become more popular is largely based on your frustration with finding available kendo instruction near you. However, what you're suggesting is that we change kendo to make it more mainstream and popular. This is not the correct path to follow if you want to keep kendo more pure than what has already happened with karate/judo/etc.

[Viyzarei]

The Harvard Invitational Shoryuhai Intercollegiate Kendo Tournament, or Shoryuhai (昇龍杯, Shōryuhai?) for short, is the largest intercollegiate kendo tournament in North America. Currently in its 14th year, the Shoryuhai is hosted annually by the Harvard Radcliffe Kendo Club every April. Teams come from all over North America, including teams from Canada and Mexico. The tournament is held in the Harvard University Malkin Athletic Center (MAC) basketball court. The fundamental purpose of the Shoryuhai is to promote kendo at the collegiate level.

Jhawz as stated by many people the CKL would not give you the expected outcome you want. I don't know if you saw Shaolin Soccer and you thought maybe it can work for kendo too. Collegiate Kendo's competition as it is now is not broke so they don't need a CKL. The Shoryuhai keeps getting bigger each year so eventually they might need more support for judges and space. Whose to say in 20 years there won't be a College Kendo Federation. But it goals won't be strictly competition based or the commericalization of kendo.

[FLOMOUSLY]

I disagree that it is unrealistic to think that we may succeed where others have failed. If that were the case edison would never have created the light bulb.

I do see your point about overemphasizing the sporting aspect of Kendo, and I apologize to Enkorat if I came across wrong. I understand that Kendo is an intensely personal Art, and I definitely don't want to change anything about it. I can see how creating something like the CKL might give people the wrong idea about Kendo, at least until they walk into a dojo are a taught by a qualified sensei. I am merely trying to brainstorm on these forums for a way to spread Kendo, so that no matter where we have to move to hold down a job, we will be able to continue our training.

Part of my reasons for doing this is because of my frustration at not having a dojo or even a teacher within a 3 hour drive of where I live. The other part is because I've discovered something I think is worthwile (Kendo) and I want people to partake of it with me. The CKL may not be a good idea, but we should be able to come up with something that works.

Thanks!

[CurtisTH]

It is unrealistic to think you can succeed where everyone else has failed. You think you're going to do the same thing with kendo that has been done with many other activities and it will somehow turn out different for you? That goes beyond optimism. Maybe you've heard the quote that defines insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
You're also forgetting that kendo is not about the sporting aspects, as enkorat tried to subtly point out to you, kendo is about personal development. You cannot overemphasize the public display of kendo which is what you're discussing, and expect to it to be able to maintain that personal philosophy.

I realize your desire to see kendo become more popular is largely based on your frustration with finding available kendo instruction near you. However, what you're suggesting is that we change kendo to make it more mainstream and popular. This is not the correct path to follow if you want to keep kendo more pure than what has already happened with karate/judo/etc.

To respond to your previous message, I totally disagree. Kendo is about becoming better kendo practitioners as well as people. We better our own lifestyle by practicing kendo, while improving our own way of Kendo. The simple suggestion to have kendo introduced to those who visit a college campus would only bring the spread of kendo. Also, I can take into the consideration of the previous arts, such as karate and judo. The suggestion is to have a league where that the kendo practitioners can develop a way to introduce kendo, improve their kendo with others and create a easier and respectable way to introduce kendo broadly while still adhering to the true meaning of kendo. It can be done, and i think that all it will take is a little determination and hard-work that all kendo students, whether new or old, have given in their kendo.

[b3JOkwXL]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. If you want to grow kendo, it has to start from the roots, not the top. Be the person who brings kendo to your own school or town. It's a hard slog.

[diemeareendup]

It would certainly be an incentive for me to join my Uni's Kendo team. I would love to meet more people who practice Kendo in lieu of studies, ha.

[enentique]

Ah...you assume that pride is a bad thing.

No, that is an incorrect assumption. I was asking that question to see where you were in the training curriculum.

My question remains: in your opinion, what is the purpose of collegiate kendo training?

[shemadagaswer]

A college kendo league would not have to be a huge thing. Basically just a set of regional tournaments in which you would qualify for a national tournament would be enough in my opinion. That way there would be some sort of organization, and something to be worked towards.

The current regional federation system... Well it is what it is, and it was definitely not built for college athletics. The way it is right now, you find a tournament, go there, have fun, and when it's done it's done. Then you start over for the next tournament. If there was some kind of organization with these instead of a dojo or regional federation saying "hey, let's do a tournament!", then I think that would be great. Don't get me wrong, the system as it is is fine for local dojos and federations, but it was just not designed with college athletics in mind.

I think this would also actually help with west coast schools coming here and kicking everyone's ass, because they would be restricted to their regional qualifiers. Also, I don't know how it works at other schools, but we can't get our trips funded by the school unless it's a regional qualifying tournament or a national championship.

I really don't understand how this would be an unachievable goal.. Japan definitely does it, Australia does it, why would it be impossible for the US?

[29clepayJainync]

Missingno I believe Kendoka said they have the University Games in where kendo was included. Kendoka didn't say there was an Australlian College Kendo League. Japan of course it is the birth place of kendo of course they can do it. If a league like that would be formed possibly it would be in Australlia, Canada or a European country first. This is my opinion but they don't have other NCAA sports in those countries that bring in big money like that some of the schools in America receive especially the big name schools. So it would be easier for those countries to have the league first especially because some of their federations are already bigger than the AUSKF. As said before in the future maybe 20 something years when the level of college kendo in the U.S. grows maybe something like a CKL will be formed. But basically having it now and watching the West Coast with top teams battle it out then that top team destroy maybe an ok Midwest or good East Coast team would be boring. The Harvard tournament is later in the year so Teams have all year to raise money or get funding to attend. Like Neil said start by bringing kendo to your own town or school first before you try to take over the kendo world. There are programs setup by the AUSKF to have a Sensei be your mentor. Find a group of people that want to learn and every year start growing.

[prearpaccew]

Boring? One of your issues is that it would be boring? In that case, why have a world kendo championship? Japan is just going to win every time, right?

But eh, it's really not that big of a deal for me honestly. I think it would be cool, but I'm not going to be like "OMG the system's broken, must have CKL!" Part of the charm of kendo really is that it's not for everyone.

[77chawzence]

I think it would be nice to have regular regional tournaments, college or not; it gives you a set goal to work toward and a way to regularly test yourself against people not in your dojo. Beyond that, it allows you to meet all kinds of new people and make friends, which is one of the big things about kendo for me. Sure, kendo isn't for everyone, but there's no reason AT ALL to make it some kind of "elite club" where only "the people good enough" can join. The special thing about kendo, I think, is that anyone can do it and do it well if they work hard. So why not give people the incentive?

Look at churches, for example; churches tend to have lots of social events aimed at the community whether or not they go to that specific church; some people join the church as a result of the connections they make there, some people don't. It doesn't cheapen the church OR the people who found the church (or God) through those events; it was just something that drew them in.

[Abebpabeniemo]

The boring part is easy to solve - divide the team championships by rank, same as the individuals. The SoCal teams are probably mostly 3D and up, the newer colleges would be fielding kyu teams.

[newspetty]

Echoing what Neil said, I think a stronger base is needed before we can even talk about forming any sort of college specific league (under the umbrella of the AUSKF or otherwise). Right now kendo isn't so widespread across the country that it warrants a national organization. Smaller regional tournaments, like the Harvard Taikai, make much more sense given the relatively small college kendo population relative to other organized college athletics. Once kendo becomes more commonplace in colleges and can maintain good solid membership it will be possible to discuss forming some sort of college league. It's great to think that far ahead and strive to get college kendo to that position but first things first: build up college kendo to the point where it could support the creation of such an organization and national college tournaments would be feasible.