[Trientoriciom]

I've noticed during meditation that I have two types of thoughts, the first type are like speaking/thinking thoughts which are the "loudest" but easyest to notice and let go. The other type are kind of background thoughts which are just random stuff, maybe memories which just sneak up without me realizing. I am correct in thinking there are different types of thoughts or is a thought just a thought?
Kind regards
Gary

[investor]

Hi Gary,

Thoughts come and go..... labelling them makes them more solid.

[ceagsoosy]

Thoughts come and go..... labelling them makes them more solid.

Yes, a taxonomy of thoughts is not a good idea during meditation...

Just let your mind to still Gary dear, concentrate on your breathing and watch your posture... In my short experience with zazen as I have been improving my posture the stillness of mind has become much more easy because breathing goes more smoothly. So when the mind is stressed, recalling my posture, at any moment, at any place makes easier to still it again.

[sat23neus2]

Thanks for being there.

[polleroy]

Thanks for being there.

Hi Gary,

What you mean by that?

[SigNeewfoew]

Being there to answer all my questions.

[xresultsearch]

Being there to answer all my questions.

Your wellcome dear Gary,

[Klavalala]

I've noticed during meditation that I have two types of thoughts, the first type are like speaking/thinking thoughts which are the "loudest" but easyest to notice and let go. The other type are kind of background thoughts which are just random stuff, maybe memories which just sneak up without me realizing. I am correct in thinking there are different types of thoughts or is a thought just a thought?
Kind regards
Gary

Sounds like you might be becoming aware of a more subtle layer of thoughts going on in your mind.
I seem to have lots of thoughts myself, subtle and coarse!

[Verriasana]

I seem to have lots of thoughts myself, subtle and coarse!

Important to remember that thoughts exist, they arise and pass away, but they are not "ours"; we do not "have" them.

[staisacic]

Sounds like you might be becoming aware of a more subtle layer of thoughts going on in your mind.
I seem to have lots of thoughts myself, subtle and coarse!

No need to separate and analyse thoughts, just relax and let them all go...

[gvataler]

Meditating on subject or object, is that not thinking? How does one go about meditating on a subject say compassion for instance or visualizing an object?

[blackjackiisre]

How does one go about meditating on a subject say compassion for instance or visualizing an object? Hi Gary,

I would think that you would be contemplating a subject such as compassion, personally I wouldn't call that 'meditation'....for example one would bring up compassionate or kind thoughts for someone close and then extend that outwards to others in one's imagination.
However, this is called 'meditation' by some and and I find that a little confusing myself !

Here are some instructions for 'loving kindness meditation' (Metta)

http://www.buddhanet.net/metta.htm


Regarding a visualisation,there are some methods for building it up in ones imagination, depending on what it is, - say, for example, from the bottom to the top. It is best to have offline instruction for this though.

I think you mentioned being interested in Tibetan Buddhism, Gary, so you should probably seek instruction for these methods at a centre.

[cafeviahe]

Thank you again Aloka-D for the explanation I'm content simply watching my breath for now hopefully one I'll get some offline instruction.

[AdSuiteAdobe]

Meditating on subject or object, is that not thinking? How does one go about meditating on a subject say compassion for instance or visualizing an object?

Sitting meditation or za-zen do not use any kind of object or subject. We do not consider this as meditation because is a way of absorption which drives away form the observation of thoughts which is a way to recognize their impermanent nature which is fundamental to see it in daily life so not to be attached to them.

[f6HLLFcw]

Hi Gary

Contemplation and concentration can be different interchangeable elements of meditation, and you can move between the two in one particular sitting if you wish. There's no hard and fast rules.

Alternatively, you can use your meditation session for contemplation only, such as 'who am I?' or just concentration on an object, such as the breath or bodily sensations.

Just to make things confusing though, you could then contemplate these bodily sensations and ask yourself 'where do these come from?'.

Whatever you do, it's all good practice though

[Doctor-CTAC]

Thank you both, I have actually tried "concentrating" on body sensations a few times and it has work well for me, I think at the moment if I start contemplating I might start wandering. I currently trying to maintaining the seven positions (the seven dharmas of Vairochana) during meditation.
with kind regards
Gary

[untostaronaf]

Initially, breathing meditation worked well for me. I found that any meditation which was 'goal' oriented tended to muddy the waters. What I mean is if you think there is a 'correct' outcome (say a perfect visualisation or feeling) then you will, by default, benchmark your sessions against it.

This creates tension and ownership of the process - the exact opposite of what works. If you are observing the breath, then there's absolutely nothing to be done with it. You already have it, just as it is and it's perfect.

Along with this nominal object, all kinds of other stuff thrusts itself upon us; thoughts, physical feelings, sounds etc. It's impossible not to drift off onto them. That's not a problem either - it doesn't mean you've failed. Sooner or later you'll catch it happening and be able to gently bring your awareness back to the breath.

This gentle training is the very path itself.

It's not about 'locking' ones focus mercilessly on the breath to the exclusion of everything else (as one sometimes reads in various places). That's just another 'results-driven' trip and causes tension and ownership too.

Just my 2 Eurocents

Namaste

[Vigeommighica]

srivijaya
thank you

[Agitoligflise]

I found that any meditation which was 'goal' oriented tended to muddy the waters.

Indeed Kris dear,

Just my 2 Eurocents

Very good investment,

[Vkowefek]

Dear Gary,

When I first started to attend the Soto Zen dojo I was given the Satipatthana Sutta (MN 10) as a introduction for zazen and shikantaza practice. I still have this sutta at hand because is a fundamental teaching so to develop some skills in daily life through the practice of meditation.

This teaching can give you, as it gave me, a lot of insight for your meditative practice... After this one I have been given the Anapanasati Sutta (MN 118) and the Kayagata Sati Sutta (MN 119) as an introduction to a skilfull meditation practice for Zazen and Shikantaza.

Hope this can be helpfull...