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Old 05-13-2012, 05:04 PM   #21
Voitramma

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Yes, he seems very relaxed, matured. If he takes the approach, which Michael used in Bahrain, he can score some good points.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:19 PM   #22
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Heard this on the radio and felt sorry for Lewis. Clearly not his fault.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:36 PM   #23
avdddcxnelkaxz

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To quote my post from another thread - Idiotic stewards with 2,5 inch genitalia and only one testicle decided to show their fascist tendencies.
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:23 PM   #24
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I honestly think that at this point, sooner than later, Hamilton and mclaren part ways eventually and there are 3 teams that will vie for his services

now in pole position is Ferrari, even though Alonso is there I think with a long discussion and some years between the two of them, they can coexist and decide the championship fairly amongst themselves as they nearly did in 2007
Each can have his side of the garage and ensure that ferrari have a bunch of wins and a title race between their drivers

2nd would be RBR and if Webber goes to Ferrari as expected, then Hamilton can go to RBR and either join vettel at the team. Vettel may not like this and opt to join Mclaren, or Webber and Hamilton stay and Vettel moves to mclaren

3rd and a real dark horse is Lotus. With either a Kimi Lewis pairing or a Hamlton Grosjean pairing with kimi returning to mclaren.

Anyway, this is just speculation if mclaren continue to drop the ball and cost hamilton race wins. More than likely he will remain with the team if by seasons end they are in the hunt or if he wins the WCC. But these issues are beyond frustration and there is no good explanation why any engineer would underfuel his car which was domination Qualy and even a p2 would have been a great result. The only thing I can think of is deliberate sabotage. It is unfathomable thet they did not know the rules or think tha they would get away with this. and I hope hamilton had a few choice words with that clown
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:24 PM   #25
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Rules are rules and must be followed, but it is disappointing to see Hamilton pay so dearly for his team's mistake.
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:30 PM   #26
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another thing

I suspected they underfueled the car and I thought that the right penalty was to strip that last time and place him with the other Q3 time he set. since the issue was simply with the last run and therefore it was appropriate to strip that time/
Disqualifying all his times from Qualy is draconian and would only be fair if there was some illegal part in the car etc. that would have given him some unfair advantage throughout qualy.

To me underfeuling your car for the 2nd run in Q3 is less of a crime than deliberately not setting a time at all IMO
form now one I will see how the stewards met out punishment to anyone who doesn't complete the cool down lap in a q3

enough on this topic for me

I hope Hamilton can storm through the field benefit from a safety car and end up no the podium
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:53 PM   #27
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While being forced to start last seems extremely harsh to me, I can understand the stewards' logic. Had Hamilton arrived to the pits, he would have been disqualified from qualifying after having failed to meet a technical requirement, and there wouldn't have been any cause for an argument. It's pretty much the same as when they disqualified the Sauber cars from a race (I don't remember which one it was) after a bodywork infringement.

Now, the only difference is that Lewis did have enough fuel to provide a sample, it's just that had he completed his lap (if he could), he wouldn't have been able to do so, which would have caused him to be disqualified. I suppose that the stewards decided that, given that he wouldn't have been able to provide a sample, the penalty should be the same.

Then again, I'd like to point out that sometimes people are much harder with McLaren and Ferrari that they are with other teams. Mercedes screwed Schumacher royally in China and Bahrain, while poor management meant that Webber was unable to get into Q3. Yet I don't see the amount of criticism towards them that I've seen towards Macca and Ferrari.
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:54 PM   #28
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I feel so sorry for Lewis, probably his best 'non pole' lap ever. It's definately just a staff/management problem at McLaren.. to those of you who are suggesting driver bias and that his team intentionaly sabotaged his (and their own) race for this reason, c'mon, thats just ridiculous!.. can I have some of what you are smoking?

A bit harsh but rules are rules and such a critical thing like fuel load should have a double and cross check system in place. As MB said earlier.. I just hope it wasn't the previous rear left wheelman. :/
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:55 PM   #29
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I agree with those saying he should have been excluded from Q3 (and start 11th) but that sending him to the back is a bit harsh, but them's the rules so at least it'll be exciting watching his race.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:01 PM   #30
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Watching the 'Phone Hack F1' channel, it appears it was a genuine mistake by the team. Chap in the team set the fuel thingy to pump out, not fill. When realised his mistake, filled up as quick as possible but not enough time.

Penalty is tough, but rules is rules. Lets hope Lewis has a good, fun and clean race.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:02 PM   #31
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I suspected they underfueled the car and I thought that the right penalty was to strip that last time and place him with the other Q3 time he set. since the issue was simply with the last run and therefore it was appropriate to strip that time/
Disqualifying all his times from Qualy is draconian and would only be fair if there was some illegal part in the car etc. that would have given him some unfair advantage throughout qualy.
From what I understand, they're supposed to have the 0.5l spare for the fuel sample in the car for all runs (I guess you never know which run will be your last). So not having it at the point it was actually needed raises the possibility it was not in the car earlier either, and all times are voided.
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:37 PM   #32
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Very impressed with Lewis so far.. :thumbup:
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:06 PM   #33
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another smart race in which he got the points. I am very impressed, last year he would have crashed with Felipe.
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:16 PM   #34
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Where are the people who say Hamilton can't manage a set of tyres? He made a 2-stop strategy work and, just as importantly, didn't lose his cool in the face of yet another blunder by his team.
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:18 PM   #35
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From what I understand, they're supposed to have the 0.5l spare for the fuel sample in the car for all runs (I guess you never know which run will be your last). So not having it at the point it was actually needed raises the possibility it was not in the car earlier either, and all times are voided.
if it wasn't in the car in the other runs he would not have managed the standard 3 laps in his first q3 run, or the other 3 lap runs in Q2 or his 4 lap run and then 3 lap run in Q1
if there wasn't enough fuel in those runs, his car would have stopped, so that argument IMO doesn't hold up

like i said, if it was a qualy long infringement that had something to do with say an illegal fuel mixture etc, then it is clear that the complete DQ should take place
but if it was an issue with the last Q3 run, then the appropriate measure would have been to strip that time. But as usual, the stewards just came down harder than normal on Hamilton.
Honestly if it was Vettel or Alonso, or Kimi, I suspect they would have simply stripped the last Q3 time and allowed the only "valid" run to count
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:22 PM   #36
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Where are the people who say Hamilton can't manage a set of tyres? He made a 2-stop strategy work and, just as importantly, didn't lose his cool in the face of yet another blunder by his team.
He has changed. He is a lot better than last year.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:46 PM   #37
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if it wasn't in the car in the other runs he would not have managed the standard 3 laps in his first q3 run, or the other 3 lap runs in Q2 or his 4 lap run and then 3 lap run in Q1
if there wasn't enough fuel in those runs, his car would have stopped, so that argument IMO doesn't hold up
The argument is that there's supposed to be enough fuel in the car to complete the run and still have the 0.5l for the sample. Being able to get back to the pits isn't proof that they had 0.5l left when they got back.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:14 AM   #38
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The argument is that there's supposed to be enough fuel in the car to complete the run and still have the 0.5l for the sample. Being able to get back to the pits isn't proof that they had 0.5l left when they got back.
it was enough to do the fast lap and then a cool down lap entering the pits, in every other run
what you are implying really makes no sense

the only mistake occurred with the final run and there is no indication that they short fueled any other time in qualy
according to you, all cars on the paddock during qualy might have shortfueled throughout all 3 sessions which is just nonsense reasoning extrapolated from a mistake done in the last run of Q3.
As mclaren explained, the engineer made a mistake and was dumping fuel instead of adding it and then hastily tried to add fuel back to the car but did not add enough in time for a last run.

THEREFORE, strip the final time and let the other stand
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:25 AM   #39
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it was enough to do the fast lap and then a cool down lap entering the pits, in every other run
what you are implying really makes no sense

the only mistake occurred with the final run and there is no indication that they short fueled any other time in qualy
according to you, all cars on the paddock during qualy might have shortfueled throughout all 3 sessions which is just nonsense reasoning extrapolated from a mistake done in the last run of Q3.
As mclaren explained, the engineer made a mistake and was dumping fuel instead of adding it and then hastily tried to add fuel back to the car but did not add enough in time for a last run.

THEREFORE, strip the final time and let the other stand
It makes sense. Whether you agree with it is a different question. The bottom line as far as the stewards are concerned is that at the end of qualifying, the car was found to be in breach of a technical regulation.

It's true that any car might be in breach of all sorts of technical regulations when no-one's looking. But if it passes scrutineering checks it's assumed to be compliant in the absence of evidence to the contrary.

If it fails scrutineering checks, on the other hand, how would you look on that as a steward? The team tell you that the car was only non-compliant for the last two laps, but I doubt they can prove it - there are no homologated refuelling rigs any more. Would you give them the benefit of the doubt? Perhaps you would. But you're going over the top in saying it's "nonsense reasoning" for the stewards not to do so.


By the way just for information - McLaren were found to have breached technical regulation 6.6.2:
Competitors must ensure that a one litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Event.

Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), if a sample of fuel is required after a practice session the car concerned must have first been driven back to the pits under its own power.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:29 AM   #40
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Where are the people who say Hamilton can't manage a set of tyres? He made a 2-stop strategy work and, just as importantly, didn't lose his cool in the face of yet another blunder by his team.
Very true Dave. When the old chesnut of Lewis having no tyre management skills is brought up in future, Barcelona 2012 will be an ideal example of the contrary. It was a disappointing weekend on the whole for Lewis but he drove a very mature race and gained some very valuable points. Very impressed.
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