[Mymnnarry]

Well the deadline for him to take over BMW and sign the Concorde Agreement has passed yesterday unfortunately. Maybe 2011 then?

What a pity.

Apparently BMW wanted more than Sauber thinks would have been fair and as a consequence they will lose out on the commercial income warranted by the Concorde agreement.
I suppose BMW are OK with paying redundancies for 700 people!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77574

[anatmob]

Sauber forgot that the 80% he sold in Sauber was worth a lot less than the 80% of BMW.Sauber he wished to purchase...

This is just round 1 of the negotiations... but if no sensible buyer is found they YES, I am sure BMW can afford to pay redundancies, they will after all be saving 100's of millions plus the assets of the operation.

[Mymnnarry]

Sauber forgot that the 80% he sold in Sauber was worth a lot less than the 80% of BMW.Sauber he wished to purchase...

The economic climate changed since than.
Also Sauber were 5th or so in the championship when he sold the team because BMW wanted it. Now BMW are looking like 2nd worse or worse team out there and they are looking to sell the team.

This is just round 1 of the negotiations... but if no sensible buyer is found they YES, I am sure BMW can afford to pay redundancies, they will after all be saving 100's of millions plus the assets of the operation.

And wouldn't it be cheaper to only pay half of that and get rid of the rest for free?!

If they are asking too much than they might as well keep it cause it isn't the right moment to try keeping the price high.

[anatmob]

Peter thought he had BMW over a barrel.... he didn't simple as that...

[Johnny]

BMW/Thiessen's ludicrous demands and stance in an attempt by Sauber to buy out the team is a perfect example of the poor decision making and mismanagement of the team. For any out there who still had doubts as to Thiessen's incompetence, the failure to have Sauber recoup the team, the missing of the Wednesday CA deadline, and the loss of securing millions in secured funding for the team should be all one needs for the lowlight reel.

[Emedgella]

BMW/Thiessen's ludicrous demands and stance in an attempt by Sauber to buy out the team is a perfect example of the poor decision making and mismanagement of the team. For any out there who still had doubts as to Thiessen's incompetence, the failure to have Sauber recoup the team, the missing of the Wednesday CA deadline, and the loss of securing millions in secured funding for the team should be all one needs for the lowlight reel.

Absolutely Truefan but just the mention of BMW to the Euro's and DOCTOR Theissen can do no wrong. He is a Loser and now has screwed the lives of 700 people. Look how classy Hond'a departure was in comparison.

[Mymnnarry]

BMW/Thiessen's ludicrous demands and stance in an attempt by Sauber to buy out the team is a perfect example of the poor decision making and mismanagement of the team. For any out there who still had doubts as to Thiessen's incompetence, the failure to have Sauber recoup the team, the missing of the Wednesday CA deadline, and the loss of securing millions in secured funding for the team should be all one needs for the lowlight reel.

Please point out where you know from that these are Theissen's demands and stance.
I'm looking forward to see your in depth information on this matter.

[Mymnnarry]

Absolutely Truefan but just the mention of BMW to the Euro's and DOCTOR Theissen can do no wrong. He is a Loser and now has screwed the lives of 700 people. Look how classy Hond'a departure was in comparison.

Why am I not surprised to see the hater back?
The question above applies to you too redneck. Make sure you have something to cover your stupid remarks about Dr. Theissen and the Euros.

[dolaBeetCeage]

It would be nice to see Peter Sauber in control of the team again.

However it plays out I just hope to see 13 teams on the grid in Australia.

[dolaBeetCeage]

BMW/Thiessen's ludicrous demands and stance in an attempt by Sauber to buy out the team is a perfect example of the poor decision making and mismanagement of the team. For any out there who still had doubts as to Thiessen's incompetence, the failure to have Sauber recoup the team, the missing of the Wednesday CA deadline, and the loss of securing millions in secured funding for the team should be all one needs for the lowlight reel.

From the wording of the report in Motorsport.com, it sounds more like the Board told both Sauber and Thiessen to buzz off.

http://motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=339864&FS=F1

Not sure if that can correctly be hung on Thiessen, although the Board could have been saying, "You squandered hundredes of millions of the company's money and now want to buy the team for a song? B****r off!"

But the real question the Board has to face is how much a 2nd-tier F1 team is worth in a rotten economy, without a Concorde revenue stream. The team currently leading both the WDC and WCC can't find a decent lead sponsor. Aside from the wind tunnel, getting $0.05 for 80% of the rest of the operation may represent $0.05 more than fair market value. Shutting it down gets $0.00 less severance/layoff costs.

ClarkFan

[TyncTyncSah]

He is also a bit like Briatore I hear, not a very nice person. He certainly made quite rude comments about Nigel Mansell's wife when they were team mates back in the 80's, so maybe he could actually be a good team owner/manager, like Flavio.

He just had/has a sense of humour that only SouthAmericans might understand, we joke that way without meaning to be rude.

After watching "W" the other day I'm starting to relate Nelsinho to George W! how many favours from daddy he needs or is he trying to hard to impress him? luckily there's no Jeb Piquet career to screw

[sauppyshurb]

But the real question the Board has to face is how much a 2nd-tier F1 team is worth in a rotten economy, without a Concorde revenue stream. The team currently leading both the WDC and WCC can't find a decent lead sponsor. Aside from the wind tunnel, getting $0.05 for 80% of the rest of the operation may represent $0.05 more than fair market value. Shutting it down gets $0.00 less severance/layoff costs.

ClarkFan

You have to wonder what the options are.

Perhaps they have other options on the table, perhaps they don't.

What I do know is that they will have committments for next year and it isn't as easy as just shutting shop.

I suggest all sides better just sit down and decide what is the best way forward or stop pissing in the wind and wind it up.

Forget all the huff and puff about the concord agreement. (Was there ever a better example of misnaming than calling that contract Harmonious ) The agreement can be sorted out retrospectivly if necessary.

However, they do need to have this resolved in the next few weeks why there is still a team.

As you say, how much is a failing team worth now? Honda did well to get out as cleanly as they did which was before the recession really bit.

[anatmob]

What I do know is that they will have committments for next year and it isn't as easy as just shutting shop..

Like what?

By not signing the agreement they are no longer committed to F1 for the next 3 years... (that was a factor in announcing the withdrawal so suddenly was it not) and so the £100,000,000+ cost of that is pure savings, they still own 80% of any freehold land and assets... and any costs involved in redundancies will soon be outweighed by the money they will save by walking away.

[zlopikanikanza]

Absolutely Truefan but just the mention of BMW to the Euro's and DOCTOR Theissen can do no wrong. He is a Loser and now has screwed the lives of 700 people. Look how classy Hond'a departure was in comparison.

Whilst I don't agree with the general sentiment and general anti-european stance you do at least make one valid point.

Honda have bent over backwards to provide Brawn with everything required to succeed and all without any favourable publicity for who outside of the die hard fans know what Honda have done for Brawn GP? Whereas BMW seem to be out for as much as they can get - just another reason we are well shot of them.

[sauppyshurb]

Like what?

By not signing the agreement they are no longer committed to F1 for the next 3 years... (that was a factor in announcing the withdrawal so suddenly was it not) and so the £100,000,000+ cost of that is pure savings, they still own 80% of any freehold land and assets... and any costs involved in redundancies will soon be outweighed by the money they will save by walking away.

Do they own the land and buildings or are they contracted to them?
When are the drivers contracts due?
Who wants to buy the assets of a specialist F1 racing team in this climate?
What over comittments are in place with suppliers / partners?
What are the contractual implications and get out clauses with sponsors?

That should do for a few million starts

[bugagasikaga]

Whilst I don't agree with the general sentiment and general anti-european stance you do at least make one valid point.

Honda have bent over backwards to provide Brawn with everything required to succeed and all without any favourable publicity for who outside of the die hard fans know what Honda have done for Brawn GP? Whereas BMW seem to be out for as much as they can get - just another reason we are well shot of them.

Agreed - I clicked on this thread to post a Honda/BMW comparison but this sums it up nicely.

[anatmob]

Agreed - I clicked on this thread to post a Honda/BMW comparison but this sums it up nicely.

Then you are both guilty of the same delusion.... well done you.

[anatmob]

Do they own the land and buildings or are they contracted to them?
When are the drivers contracts due?
Who wants to buy the assets of a specialist F1 racing team in this climate?
What over commitments are in place with suppliers / partners?
What are the contractual implications and get out clauses with sponsors?

That should do for a few million starts

1. They own them...
2. Kubica's ends this season, Heidfield's next but I suspect that will cost peanuts.
3. Assets are assets, F1 are not the only people who could make use of them, and the climate will change again.
4. Who knows..
5. Who knows..

The point is paying redundancies, mothballing the assets, paying off sponsors will still be less than competing one season in F1... even if it was equal, BMW are no longer tied to competing to 2012 so will still be saving money long term.

[mas-dkt-sive]

Maybe BMW has no intention of leaving F1, at least not permanently. Maybe they want a chance to see how the FOTA-EU-FIA thing is going to shake out.

[anatmob]

Maybe BMW has no intention of leaving F1, at least not permanently. Maybe they want a chance to see how the FOTA-EU-FIA thing is going to shake out.

While I could easily believe that up until the Hungarian GP, BMW had no intentions of leaving F1 and that the decision was basically forced upon the team by the board back in Munich, I very much doubt that they would create this much bad publicity intentionally, knowing they where intending to stay in...

No... I believe BMW's adventure in F1 is now all but resigned to the history books... can't be nice knowing you still have 7 races to attend.