[prowsnobswend]

The guy is 89 and he was just a guard.

Let it go.

Are there any reliable witnesses left alive? If all they have is that he was a guard, don't bother.

Now if they have anything definative that ties him to deaths, ok. But it doesn't sound like it.

Just because he was trained at an SS facility doesn't prove anything.

[Wr8dIAUk]

The guy is 89 and he was just a guard.

Let it go.

Are there any reliable witnesses left alive? If all they have is that he was a guard, don't bother.

Now if they have anything definative that ties him to deaths, ok. But it doesn't sound like it.

Just because he was trained at an SS facility doesn't prove anything.

Just a guard?

If he is proven to have been a guard at a death camp then that means that he ACTIVELY AIDED in mass killings.

Any guard there would have known EXACTLY what was happening and still chosen to come to work every day.

**** him.

War criminals differ from regular criminals in that they can usually hope to get away with their actions. If their side wins the war, then it's not going to be considered a crime. Even if their side loses, it's usually pretty easy for them to change identities, or hope that their actions are obscured by the fog of war.

Because of this, it becomes even more important to deter future war criminals with the knowledge that they will be hounded to the end of their days; that there is no statute of limitations. The sight of this pathetic old man rotting away in prison is something important to show.

[ttoothh]

John Demjanjuk has been hounded by the Israels for decades now, if I recall correctly he was even sentenced to death at one point but the verdict was overturned for some reason.

[RussellPG]

Also, the Nazis weren't compelling people to work as guards in the camps. They'd be just as happy sending him off to fight the Soviets.

[tobaccoman]

This isn't even close to clever. The "fixed" meme only works if there's a subtle change which can significantly alter the meaning. Rewriting an entire post doesn't cut it. Work on your skills and get back to me.

Ok. I'll drop trying to be clever. Had the camp guards at concentration camps refused to follow orders they would have ended up taking showers with the prisoners.

[HottBrorb]

Ok. I'll drop trying to be clever. Had the camp guards at concentration camps refused to follow orders they would have ended up taking showers with the prisoners.

This is actually complete nonsense.

[ticfarentibia]

Rah, I have no idea what the **** you're attempting to get at by mentioning American bomber crews. Are you implying that the use of bombers by the US constitutes a war crime?

[ultramDoctoo]

Kuci, as I understand it he is currently on trial (or whatever you want to call the proceedings against him) for a different set of crimes than the ones he was originally tried for.

And IIRC that's not the case.

[BenBoobmers]

In the general sense, no, but in some cases this would be an entirely reasonable assertion. Take the fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo, for example.

a) Is rah making this assertion?

b) There's a vast difference between a bomber crew questioning its orders to carry out a raid of dubious military effectiveness and a guard questioning his orders with full knowledge of the fact that his camp is used to execute thousands of civilians

[Sandvikla]

Just a guard?

If he is proven to have been a guard at a death camp then that means that he ACTIVELY AIDED in mass killings.

Any guard there would have known EXACTLY what was happening and still chosen to come to work every day.

**** him.

War criminals differ from regular criminals in that they can usually hope to get away with their actions. If their side wins the war, then it's not going to be considered a crime. Even if their side loses, it's usually pretty easy for them to change identities, or hope that their actions are obscured by the fog of war.

Because of this, it becomes even more important to deter future war criminals with the knowledge that they will be hounded to the end of their days; that there is no statute of limitations. The sight of this pathetic old man rotting away in prison is something important to show.

QFT

[Immarsecice]

Also, the Nazis weren't compelling people to work as guards in the camps. They'd be just as happy sending him off to fight the Soviets.

Being captured while serving with the Red Army might complicate his situation.

It is possible that some Soviets felt they had little choice but to do what was asked of them, or go rejoin their comrades in forced labour. IIRC, a large number of Red Army POWs didn't live to see the chance to be sent to the gulag.

[Ygxejxox]

a) Is rah making this assertion?

b) There's a vast difference between a bomber crew questioning its orders to carry out a raid of dubious military effectiveness and a guard questioning his orders with full knowledge of the fact that his camp is used to execute thousands of civilians

According to Robert McNamara, Curtis LeMay told him that if they'd lost the war they would be charged as war criminals for their bombing tactics. I'm inclined to agree with him.

Firebombing civilian population centers is different from working as a prison camp guard, but it's still a war crime. I think that's pretty clearly Rah's point.

[JackTimQSR]

[q]
I can't remember what this fallacy is called. Fallacy of the excluded middle? Either way, the point is that it might deter a few individuals in a future situation where they have the choice to participate or not. Even if it doesn't prevent a series of war crimes, it might make them slightly less effective/bloody by reducing the number of participants. I'm not claiming that it will deter a future Hitler. Maybe just a future Demjanjuk.

I'm sure putting him in jail will have 0 influence on all the inhuman activities currently happening in Africa and around the rest of the world.
Real deterence. DO this and 60 years later we'll give you a room and 3 square for the last year of your life.

[LarpBulaBus]

Rah, in one post you claim that the punishment this guy is facing is so severe that merely being an accessory to murder before the fact (this level of participation in a murder is considered equivalent to the act of murder itself throughout the English speaking world, by the way) might not warrant it. In the next, you're claiming that it is not severe enough to deter anybody.

[ssyyyrruho]

Rah, in one post you claim that the punishment this guy is facing is so severe that merely being an accessory to murder before the fact (this level of participation in a murder is considered equivalent to the act of murder itself throughout the English speaking world, by the way) might not warrant it. In the next, you're claiming that it is not severe enough to deter anybody.

No I said that there is no proof that he's guilty. Just being a guard doesn't make you automatically guilty.

[sadgpokx]

Proof of what, Rah?

I've already explained to you twice that somebody who knowingly and actively aids and abets a murder by restraining the victim is just as culpable as the person who actually kills the victim.

What exactly is unclear about that?

[RayFairhurst]

German submarine commanders, however, were charged with war crimes for engaging in unrestricted sumbarine warfare in the Atlantic while American/British/Dutch submarine crews were not for procecuting far more brutal and deadly unrestricted submarine warfare in the Pacific.

AFAIK wasn't it only Donitz who was tried based on this? Also, didn't the court suspend his sentence because the unrestricted sub warfare rules were regarded as ridiculous by this point in time?

[freevideoandoicsI]

Rah's jumped the shark in this one.



That's three times that I've explained to you that in many jurisdictions (and possibly the one he will be tried in) THERE IS NO LEGAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AIDING AND ABETTING A MURDER AND ACTUALLY COMMITTING IT.

The police don't need to prove which person pulled the trigger. All participants are considered equally guilty.

[Qncvqpgfg]

Yes, just Donitz, and he was found guilty though that finding was not assessed because of orders from both the British and American navies that in effect mirrored his. He served ten years.

[somozasayre]

Yes, just Donitz, and he was found guilty though that finding was not assessed because of orders from both the British and American navies that in effect mirrored his. He served ten years.

So your point is that one person (the one who issued the orders from the top) was found guilty but wasn't even punished (he was punished for other stuff IIRC).

Come on, dude. That's weak.