[BodoidearoLew]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
Why didn't you answer Kids question? I did. I do not want people like him to elect presidents who will leave us more vulnerable, so I argue with him. Perhaps you should clean out your ear..


Any professional interrogator (FBI, etc.) or ex-POW (.e.g. McCain) will tell you torture is counterproductive. It merely gets you the "information" that will stop the torturing, not the information that is true.

BTW: We are a nation built on laws and morality. We should not be torturing ANYONE!! What if there's a good chance they know of an impending terror attack and its location? Granted, in most cases torturing may not help. But it certainly has higher chance of succeeding than letting him chat with his ****ing lawyer for seven months.

Also, if the tortured individual lies and this is confirmed, he can be tortured more until he stops his bullshitting.

You seem to think we do this to everyone with little reason. Only 3 individuals have been waterboarded, and congress has visited Gitmo on many occasions. Get over yourselves..

[cymnPrayerm]

America is safe. We have 48" pizzas.

[Intiltern]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Any professional interrogator (FBI, etc.) or ex-POW (.e.g. McCain) will tell you torture is counterproductive. It merely gets you the "information" that will stop the torturing, not the information that is true. I don't get why people keep repeating this canard like a broken record. If the information given turns out to be false, what's stopping someone from going back and torturing a second time?

[VDAu5p33]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
And that scores us a perfect 10 out of 10. I'm afraid you, Ming, and Rah account for the highest portion of the budget. Your lobbyists also hamper efforts at reforming that fact as well.

[larentont]

(1) What the heck are you talking about &
(2) What does it have to do with a police state

[ElisasAUG]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
If the torturers know what is true or not, why are they torturing the guy in the first place? Don't be obtuse. The timeline is very simple: 1) man gets tortured, 2) man gives authorities phony information in order to stop the torture, 3) authorities go out and verify that the information given was in fact false, and 4) man gets tortured a second time. Lather, rinse, and repeat until something you get does turn out to be valuable. It's not that complicated.

If you want to make the "it's wrong because it's wrrrrrrroooooooong" argument feel free to do so and I'd personally agree with you, but this crap about torture never bearing fruit is just ridiculous and you know it.

[casinobonusnolimit]

Originally posted by Wiglaf


Not unconstitutional or illegal if done to non citizen terror fighters. And not inhumane if you know the individual has information that could save thousands. Take a look at this:

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. Where does the Constitution say or even imply that these protections are only for U.S. citizens?

[GSgCGxsF]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Social Security isn't part of the budget. Sophistry won't change the fact that entitlements account for a greater portion of the outflow of government monies then defense.

[rushiddink]

Originally posted by MosesPresley
1. Your nation has the highest per capita of its population in prison.

2. Your nation spends the majority of its budget on national defense.

3. You are not allowed to move about the country without your national ID card. (coming soon to a DMV near you http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...0317/1006/NEWS)

4. Camera surveillance is prevalent in most public spaces.

5. Habeas Corpus is suspended for political criminals.

6. Torture is acceptable.

7. Secret searches are acceptable.

8. All telecommunications are monitored.

9. Free speech zones.



10. No 48" pizzas.

Feel free to make your own list. So, you guys have proven No. 6.

[Gakeincidoniac]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
So, you guys have proven No. 6. What part of "If you want to make the 'it's wrong because it's wrrrrrrroooooooong' argument feel free to do so and I'd personally agree with you, but this crap about torture never bearing fruit..." don't you understand?

[GeraldCortis]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Yes, poisonous fruit.

Our use of torture is used as a recruiting tool by al Qaeda. Jesus you're naive. I don't think torture was a big deal when they flew two planes into the WTC.

[Pznrrmaf]

Since our invasion of Iraq and the subsequent torturing at Abu Grabe, recruitment of terrorists in Iraq has been very brisk. Probably has more to do with the invasion than "Abu Grabe", chief.

[hujdrftgkas]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Compare that to Social Security which actually turns a profit. Bullshit.

[loyalgagora]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Bullshit. It's turning a profit so far.... Once we babyboomers start retiring in droves, there'll be problems.

[inmeirulez]

73 years of continuous profits isn't really a "so far". The fact is if politicians hadn't raided Social Security and actually allowed it to invest like any other retirement fund then it would be the single largest fund on earth. As it is it is still one of the largest though it can only legally own T-bills which give a wretched rate of return.

Still, even with the President and Congress constantly stealing from Social Security it still has 73 years of continuous profitability. Try to find a company with that kind of record.

[Plokiikmol]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Try to find a company with that kind of record. Given that the "lockbox" is largely stuffed with governmental IOUs from the general fund, would you accept Enron or Worldcom? The U.S. has not defaulted on a loan. Not even after the Revolution, when it and many of the states were insolvent.

So, I'd invest in U.S. bonds. ...Enron and Worldcom, not so much.