[BaselBimbooooo]

I'm looking for a post, I don't remember what thread it was in. I didn't have time to read it fully, and something in it jumped out at me, and I wanted to get back to it, but I'm totally clueless where it is.

It had something in it about the purpose of people's lives, that there are some people, whose purpose it is, to be receivers, because it is humbling to always be needy and have others take care of your needs.

Maybe I just imagined it, and it wasn't in any post here. Please help.

In Christ,
always needy.
Mary.

[Boripiomi]

Mary,

Are there specific key words you can remember that might NOT be in multiple threads?

[bredkumanfirst]

Mary,

Are there specific key words you can remember that might NOT be in multiple threads?

No! I tried a search and there were tooooooooooooooo many threads to search through!



I'm so frstrtd,



maybe I should just start a new thread. but my brain has dried up.

[johnstylet]

Mary wrote:

I'm looking for a post, I don't remember what thread it was in. I didn't have time to read it fully, and something in it jumped out at me, and I wanted to get back to it, but I'm totally clueless where it is.

It had something in it about the purpose of people's lives, that there are some people, whose purpose it is, to be receivers, because it is humbling to always be needy and have others take care of your needs.
But whatever the original post was I'd say you summed it up pretty well!

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Rnlvifov]

No! I tried a search and there were tooooooooooooooo many threads to search through!



I'm so frstrtd,

Giggles....

Father Raphael is right you summed it up very well.

Now for the hair part... Do not drive yourself crazy and pull out all your hair. Stop it. Giggles...

[estelle]

Thank you, Fr Raphael. I wanted to read it again, because I wasn't sure I'd read it right. So, what my mind grasped, while glancing through the post at the speed of light, was accurate? The reason I need to know is because I grew up believing that everyone had to have something to contribute to someone else in order to justify their existence. There were many beggars in Ethiopia. Especially around the Churches. No one ever did anything for them to help them out of their poverty. The beggars themselves, liked being beggars. Those who came to the Churches, made sure they always had something to give the beggars, and the beggars would bless them after receiving their few coins. One lady, went back to get her blessing from a beggar, because, the beggar forgot to bless her in the crowd of almsgivers. People said the beggars were needed, because if there weren't any beggars, who could you give to? And we've been commanded to give, so there needs to be someone to receive all the giving! We laughed at that idea, because it smelled too much like buying your salvation with your works. But then, there was no idea or thought of humility back then.

A friend of mine, and I tried to take things into our own hands and help a beggar off the streets. We spent hours sitting next to her, trying to make friends with her, have a normal human conversation with her... but she didn't want to be friends. She only wanted money, or whatever we could give her for her child. She didn't seem to care that she lived on the street. We couldn't understand how anyone would not want to live a 'normal' life. Maybe she wasn't capable of it?

But there's another reason I need to know. She was a beggar on the outside, I'm a beggar on the inside. I find that most of the time, I have nothing to give, and I get desperately needy. It makes me feel like a huge burden on those who know me the most. I wonder how they put up with me and keep giving, when all I can do is thank them and ask God to bless them for their kindness to me. Come to think of it, that's exactly what the beggars said: "May God give to you, on my behalf." And the more talkative ones, would also bless the rest of your family. Or maybe the extra blessings were if they got more than just a few coins.

Anyway, I've always felt that I haven't been learning what I should be learning, so I can equip myself and stop being a burden to everyone. But if I am a beggar, then I see that wanting to be able to give as I have received, is out of pride, and not out of love. Perhaps some love is mixed in there, but it's possible that most of it is pride. Also, if I am indeed a beggar, then I should stop wishing I wasn't, and should be more diligent in blessing those who are willing to give to me! And instead of feeling guilty that I have nothing to give in return, maybe, I could just be thankful that God has sent someone to provide for my need. I dunno.

Nina. Thanks for you concern for my hair. I've got plenty to spare. =) Perhaps a few bald spots will cure me of my vanity. I love my hair like Absolom loved his. Did Samson love his hair too?

Well, I'm cured of my frstrtdnss. You know, spelling the word without vowels sounds just like it feels! =)

No, I didn't find the post I was looking for. I went on a pilgrimage instead. To my own parish. I walked. It took me an hour and 45 minutes. 5.7 miles. Of course, I've no idea if I'll be able to walk again tomorrow, but it felt really good today!

Anyways, had a good confession, a good chat with the priest, coffee and brownies, and then I spent another two hours in church getting wax off the carpet. Now I know what to do when I dont' know what to do with myself... I'll just start walking.

In Christ,
Mary

[r7rGOhvd]

Nina. Thanks for you concern for my hair. I've got plenty to spare. =) Perhaps a few bald spots will cure me of my vanity. I love my hair like Absolom loved his. Did Samson love his hair too?

I was actually worried because you are pulling your hair in the smiley (which is really upsety) every two seconds!!! Giggles... You know that I do not have good discernment. Absalom and Samson maybe- but isn't one bad and one righteous? Or are they both good guys? When I am in the woods and my hair get entangled sometime, I think of Absalom. Maybe he is telling me: 'do not be vain, do not be vain'.

No, I didn't find the post I was looking for. I went on a pilgrimage instead. To my own parish. I walked. It took me an hour and 45 minutes. 5.7 miles. Of course, I've no idea if I'll be able to walk again tomorrow, but it felt really good today! You would love to read what Elder Paisios writes in his book 'With pain and love for contemporary man'. When he had guests and had to sit for long periods he felt stiff so afterwards he started walking for an hour in Mount Athos around his keli and was saying the Jesus prayer.

Anyways, had a good confession, a good chat with the priest, coffee and brownies, and then I spent another two hours in church getting wax off the carpet. If you keep telling us all your good deeds you might end up not getting reward in Heaven for that

[zU8KbeIU]

I was actually worried because you are pulling your hair in the smiley (which is really upsety) every two seconds!!! Giggles... You know that I do not have good discernment. Absalom and Samson maybe- but isn't one bad and one righteous? Or are they both good guys? When I am in the woods and my hair get entangled sometime, I think of Absalom. Maybe he is telling me: 'do not be vain, do not be vain'.

They were both good guys, and they were both bad guys. We know for sure that Samson repented after he'd fooled around and used his powers for selfish purposes. As for Absolom, perhaps he remembered how much his father loved him, and repented a few minutes before he died. I always hoped he did. For some reason, I always had a soft spot in my heart for him. Don't ask. I don't know. Never met him. Maybe it was just a reflection of how much David loved him. I dunno.

If you keep telling us all your good deeds you might end up not getting reward in Heaven for that

Those are good deeds? What kind of calculator do you use? They were entirely selfish deeds... they were designed entirely, for my benefit. If anyone else benefits from them, it's just a side effect.

And it will be a few days before I can walk again. My legs are so stiff I can't change my position from sitting to standing or back! LOL Serves me right for being impressed with myself for making it to church in less than 5 hrs!

Mary

[R1king]

If you want to know what it is like to be a true begger, be one for one hour. Write out a sign and stand on the street corner for an hour. See how many people ignore you and how many give to you. Then donate any monies to the Church or to a real begger.

I say this because, it will really make apparent the hopelssness these people have. Many do really just want to survive or provide for their kids also on the street. In Houston the average age of a homeless person is ...9 yrs old. 9!!!

To be "needy" is not to be a begger. There is a difference.

Paul

[SergeyLisin]

They were both good guys, and they were both bad guys. We know for sure that Samson repented after he'd fooled around and used his powers for selfish purposes. As for Absolom, perhaps he remembered how much his father loved him, and repented a few minutes before he died. I always hoped he did. For some reason, I always had a soft spot in my heart for him. Don't ask. I don't know. Never met him. Maybe it was just a reflection of how much David loved him. I dunno.

You have a sister then. I do not know why I liked Absalom also. I also felt very much pity for him. There is even a book titled after him "Absalom, Absalom".

Those are good deeds? What kind of calculator do you use? They were entirely selfish deeds... they were designed entirely, for my benefit. If anyone else benefits from them, it's just a side effect. This sign means I am joking. And I placed 3 of them -after I teased you- with a purpose (so there is a purpose for smilies too).

And it will be a few days before I can walk again. My legs are so stiff I can't change my position from sitting to standing or back! LOL Serves me right for being impressed with myself for making it to church in less than 5 hrs! It is ok. You just will get used to it and will be even faster in the future.

[dafodilkemmy]

If you want to know what it is like to be a true begger, be one for one hour. Write out a sign and stand on the street corner for an hour. See how many people ignore you and how many give to you. Then donate any monies to the Church or to a real begger.
Paul

Paul, I think that we can also imagine what a real beggar must go through. It is enough to look at the cars in front of you how they treat the beggar (in a good or bad way). Then you can place himself in his/her shoes and feel the humiliation for just standing there and facing all the people, their looks, faces etc. Just imagining it is enough for making one feel pity. Also St. Niphon says that above the beggar he saw Christ, Who got the offering from the person and gave it to the beggar, however both people were unaware of it. Therefore if we give to a beggar, we literally give to Christ.

[payloansday]

From St. Peter of Damaskos (The Philokalia Vol. 3; Faber and Faber pgs. 96-97):

"'Blessed are the merciful for they will receive mercy' (Mt. 5:7). The merciful person is he who gives to others what he has himself received from God, whether it be money, or food, or strength, a helpful word, a prayer, or anything else that he has through which he can express his compassion for those in need. At the same time he considers himself a debtor, since he has received more than he is asked to give. By Christ’s grace, both in the present and in the world to come, before the whole of creation he is called merciful, just as God is called merciful (cf. Lk. 6:36)."

[EntectCelpelm]

If the begger (and I use this term only for the visual identification) is in need of help, that is their role in life for the moment. If I can help that is my role for the moment. He gets a blessing for being helped and I get a blessing for helping. Is he supposed to "feed off" others? No, he is supposed to do all he can for himself and I am to help him get back on his feet. Unfortunalty in our society there are many who like this life OR are trapped in this life by circumstances. Many from addictions or mental problems. What do we do for these folks? We treat them as if they were Christ Himself.

If someone asks for our coat we give him our outer garment as well. We don't expect to receive back. If the "begger" is abusing his fellow man for a free handout, then he is subject to God; not to us. We should not judge him. God is watching us to see if we will do our part.

IMHO
Paul

[Kitdowstyhodo]

Sigh.

I have so many things going on in my head. I tried to write it down, but I just feel like I"m making a lot of noise, banging on empty pots. So, I think I'll just not try to say anything.

[MAKEMONEY]

Is he supposed to "feed off" others?
Paul

But we all 'feed off' God. We feed off earth, creation that God made for us... Maybe they had really hard life... maybe they can not find a job... Why did so many saints gave their possessions to the poor? That would classify as "feed off" others, wouldn't it? I am just trying to understand and maybe bring more sayings from the Fathers on the matter. Of course all Fathers condemn laziness, and idleness.

[hjyAMqqT]

A worker is worth his wages. Let him who does not work not eat. St.Paul was a tent maker by trade and did this to pay his own way. Even though he should have been well cared for.

Yes, we all feed off God and we are lazy and thankless. Most beggers will at least thank you for what you give them regardless how little.

Otherwise I think we agree on our two posts.

[blogforlovxr]

A worker is worth his wages. Let him who does not work not eat. St.Paul was a tent maker by trade and did this to pay his own way. Even though he should have been well cared for.

Yes, we all feed off God and we are lazy and thankless. Most beggers will at least thank you for what you give them regardless how little.

Otherwise I think we agree on our two posts.

Yeah, I think we agree on pretty much everything.

But, me thinks, it's sort of related to your previous post, in which you mentioned a key thing - hopelessness. When a person is filled with hopelessness, it's like he's paralyzed. A person who is physically paralyzed, isn't capable of taking care of himself, and has times when he experiences incredible pain. Is it the same when a person is paralyzed on the inside?

But, God can even raise the dead, so, to breathe life into a paralyzed heart isn't hard for Him. So, for those of us who know Him, we don't have much excuse for choosing to remain paralyzed instead of asking Him to heal us. That's where I start getting confused, because, God doesn't heal ALL physical ailments. But, does He always heal emotional ailments? Physical needs aren't met all the time. So, are emotional needs also left unmet?

It seems to me, all kinds of needs, regardless of if they are physical, emotional, spiritual or whatever else, have the ability to drive us into hopelessness. And it seems to me, that we can learn to live with those needs, as handicapped people learn to live with their disabilities, and in learning to accept those needs as a part of our lives, we can turn to God and stop being so hopeless.

That's not to say we shouldn't pray for our needs to be met or even work towards getting those needs met, but rather that, we choose to learn to be content, whether God heals us or not, whether He meets those needs in the way we wish them to be met, or not. I dunno.

Now, is the noise in my head bothering you as much as it's bothering me?

Mary.

[scemHeish]

A worker is worth his wages. Let him who does not work not eat.

Oh c'mon Paul. Who are we to judge the poor person who is homeless, jobless? How do we know the circumstances? Even if we did: Do you think we have whatever we have because of our work and because of us? These blessings we have are because of God. We need not make the cross of people who are less fortunate, heavier. Compassion/charity as the quote above states is not only materially. Plus as we have mentioned before do we think that with our lame, pathetic spiritual achievements/work we deserve Heaven? It is the charity, mercy of God that will allow us to enter Heaven. If we do not show mercy in whatever way we know and can here, we can not ask for mercy there. And here is our chance to show charity, mercy, since we are not God and we are not required to show mercy to let people enter Heaven.

[nuncEtedben]

I am not judging. I was just quoting St. Paul.

2 Thessalonians 3:10

10For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.


Lord knows I am THE worst of sinners.

[Trikaduliana]

I am not judging. I was just quoting St. Paul.

2 Thessalonians 3:10

10For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Dear Paul, nooo

I did not say that you personally judge. Forgive please my words that were not very clear.

I meant it in general (for me too) because I often hear myself, and others try to rationalize the situation of a beggar. Since often we just see the poor person for maybe two minutes, we can not possibly know the reason behind his need.

Of course St. Paul would say the words he said and he is so very right. He wanted to teach us that a Christian should work, should not be idle, lazy etc. That is another issue.

Because we know stories of saints and fathers who gave to beggars, who actually in our society's terms: verbally abused them, or tried to cheat them, or took advantage of them and were obviously not working - one of the beggars who was actually an angel took literally free rides (again in our society's terms) physically on the back of a saint, and was very demanding and so on. In many cases these beggars turned out to be angels sent by God to try the saints. When Christ said that "when I was naked you clothed Me, when I was hungry you fed Me, etc." note that He does not place a condition: check if the person is working, or not, if he is voluntarily in the street, and the reasons. Also there are many poor people who work very hard and many hours and can barely feed the family.