[selayeffethy]

The short sightedness of our 'leaders' never ceases to amaze me. Their one and only solution to any and every problem is growth. economy down....growth, unemployment up....growth, you name it, their hot tip.....more growth. When is someone (world leader) going to have the guts to say: ''There's just too many $@^^%* people and we need to stop!!''

Growth is the disease not the cure. If we don't stop growing we will end up living like rats. (7 billion and counting)

( Sorry, just listened to another long winded speech about growth from our esteemed treasurer )

[masaredera]

Damn! You and I are on the same wavelength.

"Alternative" energy systems - intended to "save" our asses - DON'T.

Everything is an energy balance. Altamont Pass in California, falls on the ridge that separates the cool, moist coastal area from the arid interior.. The cool, dense air passing over the ridge is the ideal force for driving windmills, so thousands have been erected, generating megawatt after megawatt of power.

unfortunately, nobody bothered to think about the fact that the trapping of the energy by the windmills has extracted all of the energy out of the air stream, and that moist air is no longer being delivered to the valley beyond. What used to be reasonably rich agricultural land is now a desert.

When you turn on the lights of your car, you actually get less gas mileage than you do if you don't have the lights on. The decrease may be infinitesimal therefore unknown-or at least undetected-but it is real.

We erect millions of square meters of solar cells. At solar flux is no longer reaching the earth, even if it is a desert environment, but do we have any idea what that is doing to the ecology of the earth?.

The simple fact is that our entire ecology is a giant energy balance, and we're doing everything we can to throw it off kilter.

Population control really is the only cure to our problems.

[LSDDSL]

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[zueqhbyhp]

Four

[ServiceColas]

Ditto. I talk with my kids about this all the time. There will eventually be a maximum capacitry. Have we already reached it?

[selayeffethy]

[quote=Ray;349121]
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[selayeffethy]

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[cheesypeetyz]

Stone: I agree too. Problem is, it really doesn't matter, because we have already gone too far in destroying the planet. Any bit of 'help' we try to give is futile. Sorry to say it, but unfortunately it is true.

[Nafheense]

[quote=Stone;349179] Quote:

[markbila]

I don't entirely disagree with you all but I don't think it's so simple. Human evolution creates and is driven by our modification of ecological factors affecting carrying capacity (eg the Green Revolution). Increased local carrying capacity creates opportunity for higher population and higher cultural density. Science and innovation are to some extent a function of cultural density and in turn drive further advances in ecological techs. Because carrying capacity of human ecologies is modified by technology it doesn't necessarily get 'spent' at a fixed rate (or at all) relative to population growth. By the same token, bad stewardship can decrease net carrying capacity even if population also decreases, so just getting rid of people won't solve our problems. Does any of this make sense?

[Arrocousa]

There's several aspects to carrying capacity. Food, shelter, waste products, psychology/behavior.

Not everyone is made to live elbow to elbow and be happy about it.

You can pack a bunch of rats in a cage and give them unlimited food, but they will end up drowning in there own waste, or going crazy and killing themselves. So which carrying capacity are you concerned with?

Humans are supposed to be smarter than the rest of God's creatures, but I'm still looking for a sign that we are (besides are ability to fly to the moon, or build a REALLY BIG bomb).

So insurance isn't supposed to pay for birth control, but will pay for viagra

I'm still waiting for that sign of true intelligence.

[Arrocousa]

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[Zysyewgg]

I think the right word to describe what we need is : maturation...
Growth is another thing and it does not mean / lead to better things...!

I think that we are where we are because everyone of us just thought of themselves and only... almost noone cares for the fellow human being or "roomate" creature and only cares how to please their own desires, wishes, needs...

Who did ever thanked mother earth, the home of us all, for letting us live here (we take it for granded, but the only sure thing in our life is that we all going to die one day...lol...nothing else is certain), for suffering and bearing all of our immature acts...who ever tried to do something in favour of her (even reduce their garbage for a day, knowing it is done in favour earth herself).... All we do is punching holes, scratching off & altering her "skin" surace (aka landscapes) indiscrimitatelly...bla bla bla... All we think of her is as a garbage can...throwing more and more of our garbage, either material or mental...

Who did ever felt thankful even for a whole day about earth? I didn't...

It is all about I, I, I, I or we, we, we, we...!!! There is no us....

But things are changing....there seems to be a will for change, but everyone is reluctant to make the step.... we need a trigger... or someone that will pull the trigger.... we will have to wait...lol...

Oh, and please do not talk about science and tech...these are tools...!!! It is us who should change, not the tools.....!!! OMG!!!

[selayeffethy]

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[selayeffethy]

One more thing before I stop dribbling. Another (modern?) way to look at it:
The Earth will be destroyed by the Sun in the next 10 billion years??. All of Earth's life and history will be gone. So does it really matter if it ends now or then in the great scheme of things? Every man for himself?

[Zysyewgg]

[zueqhbyhp]

My parents seem relieved that their time on earth is short (they are very old now), and this is how I am beginning to feel as well. Get me the heck outta here! This place has become the Planet of the Humans. It isn't pretty, and I hardly recognize it anymore.

[masaredera]

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[zueqhbyhp]

I'm proud to say I have created no offspring, and I shall not do so in the future. I've had my hands full helping to raise my late sister's five children over the past nine years. Five are more than enough, too many really, and I am pleased with how they've turned out for the most part. Two are in graduate school, one in community college, and two are in high school now, one of whom will graduate this spring. None of them have procreated yet. I'm cautiously hopeful.

[markbila]

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