Osama not buried at sea - according to new wikileaks cables? - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**Qxsumehj** · 03-06-2012, 09:50 PM

Not sure what to make of this

http://rt.com/news/osama-body-wikileaks-stratfor-949/

The body of Al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden was not buried at sea, according to leaked emails of intelligence firm Stratfor, as revealed by WikiLeaks.

Stratfor’s vice-president for intelligence, Fred Burton, believes the body was “bound for Dover, [Delaware] on [a] CIA plane” and then “onward to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Bethesda [Maryland],” an email says.

The official version is that the body of Al-Qaeda’s top man, who was killed by a US raid in Pakistan on May 2, 2011, was buried at an undisclosed location at sea in a proper Muslim ceremony.

"If body dumped at sea, which I doubt, the touch is very Adolph Eichman like. The Tribe did the same thing with the Nazi's ashes," Burton commented in another email. Eichman was one of the masterminds of the Holocaust by Nazi Germany. He was captured by Mossad agents in Argentina and, tried in Israel, found guilty and executed in 1962. His body was cremated and his ashes were scattered at sea over the Mediterranean.

--- Post Update ---

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...-buried-at-sea

Update with another source, reads like a sensationalized communication error. pasting in its entirety as the website is getting slammed

According to the official version of events promulgated by the Obama administration, after U.S. forces killed Osama bin Laden, his body was flown to Afghanistan for identification and then buried in the Arabian Sea about 12 hours after his death, supposedly in keeping with Islamic ritual. However, internal e-mails from intelligence service Stratfor, obtained by the hacker group Anonymous and posted to the Internet by WikiLeaks, cast doubt on that story.

Austin, Texas-based Stratfor is a very well-connected organization described by WikiLeaks as “a company that fronts as an intelligence publisher, but provides confidential intelligence services to large corporations, such as Bhopal’s Dow Chemical Co., Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and government agencies, including the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Marines and the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency.” The company’s vice president for intelligence, Fred Burton, a highly experienced counterterrorism expert with many contacts in the U.S. government, was the originator of most of the e-mails concerning the disposition of bin Laden’s body in the hours after his death.

Bin Laden was allegedly killed near Abbottabad, Pakistan, on May 2, 2011, just after 1:00 a.m. local time. President Barack Obama announced bin Laden’s assassination on May 1 at 11:35 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time (May 2 had not yet arrived in the United States).

At 5:26 a.m. Central Daylight Time on May 2, Burton sent out an e-mail with the subject “OBL” (Osama bin Laden) stating: “Reportedly, we took the body with us. Thank goodness.”

Twenty-five minutes later he sent one with the subject “Body bound for Dover, DE on CIA plane.” The text read: “Than [sic] onward to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Bethesda.” (“Technically this would have meant the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, since the AFIP operations were folded into Walter Reed as part of a consolidation plan,” explained Jason Ditz of Antiwar.com, adding that if confirmed, “it would add yet more intrigue to Dover Air Force Base, already under enormous scrutiny for its mishandling of corpses and disposal of remains at a Virginia landfill.”)

At 6:26 a.m. Burton stated that he “doubt[ed]” that bin Laden’s body had been “dumped at sea,” adding, “We would want to photograph, DNA, fingerprint, etc.” “His body is a crime scene,” he continued, “and I don’t see the FBI nor DOJ letting that happen.” He suggested that burying the body at sea would be reminiscent of the cremation of Nazi Adolf Eichmann’s body following his capture, trial, and execution, the purpose of which was to prevent anyone from building a memorial to him.

Stratfor CEO George Friedman agreed but noted that “Eichmann was seen alive for many months on trial before being sentenced to death and executed,” then cremated. “No comparison with suddenly burying him at sea without any chance to view him which i [sic] doubt happened,” he added.

Obviously neither of these highly connected men with plenty of inside sources had yet bought into the idea that bin Laden had been sent to Davy Jones’ locker. Indeed, at 1:36 p.m. Burton was still of the opinion that bin Laden’s body was being taken to the United States, writing: “Body is Dover bound, should be here by now.”

By 3:11 p.m., however, he appears to have changed his mind, e-mailing: “Down & dirty done, He already sleeps with the fish.” But he noted the difficulties that this course of action would create, saying, “It seems to me that by dropping the corpse in the ocean, the body will come back to haunt us.”

Although bin Laden’s corpse hasn’t haunted the United States much thus far, the release of the Stratfor e-mails will likely revive the debate over just what happened to bin Laden’s body and, consequently, whether or not U.S. forces actually killed the terrorist mastermind in the first place. Secrecy prior to the raid is understandable; a refusal to produce the key piece of evidence that the raid was successful, on the other hand, is quite curious indeed.

The Obama administration claimed it had buried bin Laden at sea in an effort comply with Islamic tradition, which requires washing, shrouding, and burial within 24 hours of death. However, “a number of scholars have said such an action is appropriate only under ‘extraordinary circumstances’ — and that bin Laden’s death did not qualify,” CBS News reported at the time.

Moreover, observed the Guardian: “The 24-hour rule has not always been applied by the U.S. in the past. For example, the bodies of Uday and Qusay Hussein — sons of the Iraqi dictator — were held for 11 days before being released for burial.”

Another theory behind the sea burial was that, as in the case of Eichmann’s cremation, dumping the body into the deep would prevent his grave from becoming an inspiration to other terrorists.

This theory also seems to be applied selectively. “Saddam Hussein was treated to traditional Islamic burial rites and interred in a compound he had built for himself near his birthplace,” Slate wrote. “When detainees die at Guantanamo Bay, either through suicide or natural causes, the Pentagon repatriates the remains to their home countries, where the funerals often become scenes of anti-American protest.”

One might argue that bin Laden’s was a special case likely to inspire devotion on the part of Islamic militants and that as a result, his burial at sea was appropriate. The Guardian, though, dismisses such notions: “Fears about Bin Laden’s burial place turning into a shrine for Islamists were probably unfounded, since the Wahhabi/Salafi tradition rejects such things. Even Saudi kings are buried in unmarked graves.”

Given all this, more people are likely to question whether bin Laden was killed on May 2 and whether his body was plopped into the Arabian Sea shortly thereafter. Very little evidence of a successful operation against bin Laden has been produced; and what evidence existed at the time continues to dwindle. Besides the mysteriously disappearing corpse, the compound in which bin Laden was supposedly killed was demolished last week.

The Obama administration apparently expects the world to accept its version of events on faith alone — a kind of trust it has hardly earned over the past three years. But with the release of the Stratfor e-mails, which suggest that bin Laden’s body was not buried at sea (or at least not as quickly as the administration maintained), what many consider to be Obama’s one certified foreign policy achievement may well be called into question just as he is seeking reelection. Then again, if dead people can vote in Chicago, why couldn’t the supposed corpse of bin Laden play a role in the reelection or ouster of a President with roots in the Windy City’s political machine?

**pertikuss** · 03-06-2012, 10:59 PM

UBL is gone, one way or another. Who cares?
But on the linked site I found more interesting news about China attempt to buy advanced Sukhoi 35 fighter (for copy/paste purposes) [chin]

**casefexas** · 03-06-2012, 10:59 PM

Who cares?

**Nikkkola** · 03-06-2012, 11:09 PM

It's amazing how quickly the entire UBL saga ended after his death, his mentioning by the talking heads at primetime news hour when discussing 9/11 is almost zero now.

**SHpuntik** · 03-07-2012, 01:28 AM

Who cares?

No one, but conspiracy nut jobs. He is dead, what happened with his body is irrelevant.

**joulseenjoync** · 03-07-2012, 03:01 AM

Who cares?

Al-Qaeda members?

**Bbjhjxfy** · 03-07-2012, 01:51 PM

No one, but conspiracy nut jobs. He is dead, what happened with his body is irrelevant.

I care, and I'm not a conspiracy nutjob. If it's true then that means our government has once again lied to us. Not that it should be surprising, but then again that's an even bigger issues that we just assume the government lies to us every day and we take it in stride like it's nothing out of the ordinary. That's f'd up when an overpaid group of career politicians who make far more than the average person with insane benefits have the right to legislate your entire life and can tell lies and nobody cares. When did America get castrated?

**moopogyOvenny** · 03-08-2012, 01:46 AM

Here's a news flash, I hope you are sitting down.

The US government lies.

Let it sink in before you try to do anything else the rest of the day, it's a truth that is not only shocking, but a total mind-****.

**zibTefapparia** · 03-08-2012, 03:12 AM

Here's a news flash, I hope you are sitting down.

The US government lies.

Let it sink in before you try to do anything else the rest of the day, it's a truth that is not only shocking, but a total mind-****.

NO WAY!!! Honestly, I could not have cared less on what they did with the body. The US government could've fed it to pigs and I wouldn't have batted an eye. The man was our enemy, we neutralized him then took his body and his property. IMO the US government is free to do whatever they want to his body.

**HedoShoodovex** · 03-08-2012, 03:17 AM

The man was our enemy.

I bet you regret arming him to the teeth.

**SobiquYo** · 03-08-2012, 03:20 AM

Mmmm I already knew that 1 day after it happened

**Sowsunese** · 03-08-2012, 04:56 AM

I bet you regret arming him to the teeth.

Nope, we used him to attack the Russians. Unfortunately, his being armed was the cost of killing 15k Soviet troops.

**Unrersvar** · 03-08-2012, 05:02 AM

Speaking of the evil that men do... #Kony2012 [shocked][please]

03-06-2012, 09:50 PM	#1
Qxsumehj Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 427 Senior Member	Osama not buried at sea - according to new wikileaks cables? Not sure what to make of this http://rt.com/news/osama-body-wikileaks-stratfor-949/ The body of Al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden was not buried at sea, according to leaked emails of intelligence firm Stratfor, as revealed by WikiLeaks. Stratfor’s vice-president for intelligence, Fred Burton, believes the body was “bound for Dover, [Delaware] on [a] CIA plane” and then “onward to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Bethesda [Maryland],” an email says. The official version is that the body of Al-Qaeda’s top man, who was killed by a US raid in Pakistan on May 2, 2011, was buried at an undisclosed location at sea in a proper Muslim ceremony. "If body dumped at sea, which I doubt, the touch is very Adolph Eichman like. The Tribe did the same thing with the Nazi's ashes," Burton commented in another email. Eichman was one of the masterminds of the Holocaust by Nazi Germany. He was captured by Mossad agents in Argentina and, tried in Israel, found guilty and executed in 1962. His body was cremated and his ashes were scattered at sea over the Mediterranean. --- Post Update --- http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...-buried-at-sea Update with another source, reads like a sensationalized communication error. pasting in its entirety as the website is getting slammed According to the official version of events promulgated by the Obama administration, after U.S. forces killed Osama bin Laden, his body was flown to Afghanistan for identification and then buried in the Arabian Sea about 12 hours after his death, supposedly in keeping with Islamic ritual. However, internal e-mails from intelligence service Stratfor, obtained by the hacker group Anonymous and posted to the Internet by WikiLeaks, cast doubt on that story. Austin, Texas-based Stratfor is a very well-connected organization described by WikiLeaks as “a company that fronts as an intelligence publisher, but provides confidential intelligence services to large corporations, such as Bhopal’s Dow Chemical Co., Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and government agencies, including the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the U.S. Marines and the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency.” The company’s vice president for intelligence, Fred Burton, a highly experienced counterterrorism expert with many contacts in the U.S. government, was the originator of most of the e-mails concerning the disposition of bin Laden’s body in the hours after his death. Bin Laden was allegedly killed near Abbottabad, Pakistan, on May 2, 2011, just after 1:00 a.m. local time. President Barack Obama announced bin Laden’s assassination on May 1 at 11:35 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time (May 2 had not yet arrived in the United States). At 5:26 a.m. Central Daylight Time on May 2, Burton sent out an e-mail with the subject “OBL” (Osama bin Laden) stating: “Reportedly, we took the body with us. Thank goodness.” Twenty-five minutes later he sent one with the subject “Body bound for Dover, DE on CIA plane.” The text read: “Than [sic] onward to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Bethesda.” (“Technically this would have meant the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, since the AFIP operations were folded into Walter Reed as part of a consolidation plan,” explained Jason Ditz of Antiwar.com, adding that if confirmed, “it would add yet more intrigue to Dover Air Force Base, already under enormous scrutiny for its mishandling of corpses and disposal of remains at a Virginia landfill.”) At 6:26 a.m. Burton stated that he “doubt[ed]” that bin Laden’s body had been “dumped at sea,” adding, “We would want to photograph, DNA, fingerprint, etc.” “His body is a crime scene,” he continued, “and I don’t see the FBI nor DOJ letting that happen.” He suggested that burying the body at sea would be reminiscent of the cremation of Nazi Adolf Eichmann’s body following his capture, trial, and execution, the purpose of which was to prevent anyone from building a memorial to him. Stratfor CEO George Friedman agreed but noted that “Eichmann was seen alive for many months on trial before being sentenced to death and executed,” then cremated. “No comparison with suddenly burying him at sea without any chance to view him which i [sic] doubt happened,” he added. Obviously neither of these highly connected men with plenty of inside sources had yet bought into the idea that bin Laden had been sent to Davy Jones’ locker. Indeed, at 1:36 p.m. Burton was still of the opinion that bin Laden’s body was being taken to the United States, writing: “Body is Dover bound, should be here by now.” By 3:11 p.m., however, he appears to have changed his mind, e-mailing: “Down & dirty done, He already sleeps with the fish.” But he noted the difficulties that this course of action would create, saying, “It seems to me that by dropping the corpse in the ocean, the body will come back to haunt us.” Although bin Laden’s corpse hasn’t haunted the United States much thus far, the release of the Stratfor e-mails will likely revive the debate over just what happened to bin Laden’s body and, consequently, whether or not U.S. forces actually killed the terrorist mastermind in the first place. Secrecy prior to the raid is understandable; a refusal to produce the key piece of evidence that the raid was successful, on the other hand, is quite curious indeed. The Obama administration claimed it had buried bin Laden at sea in an effort comply with Islamic tradition, which requires washing, shrouding, and burial within 24 hours of death. However, “a number of scholars have said such an action is appropriate only under ‘extraordinary circumstances’ — and that bin Laden’s death did not qualify,” CBS News reported at the time. Moreover, observed the Guardian: “The 24-hour rule has not always been applied by the U.S. in the past. For example, the bodies of Uday and Qusay Hussein — sons of the Iraqi dictator — were held for 11 days before being released for burial.” Another theory behind the sea burial was that, as in the case of Eichmann’s cremation, dumping the body into the deep would prevent his grave from becoming an inspiration to other terrorists. This theory also seems to be applied selectively. “Saddam Hussein was treated to traditional Islamic burial rites and interred in a compound he had built for himself near his birthplace,” Slate wrote. “When detainees die at Guantanamo Bay, either through suicide or natural causes, the Pentagon repatriates the remains to their home countries, where the funerals often become scenes of anti-American protest.” One might argue that bin Laden’s was a special case likely to inspire devotion on the part of Islamic militants and that as a result, his burial at sea was appropriate. The Guardian, though, dismisses such notions: “Fears about Bin Laden’s burial place turning into a shrine for Islamists were probably unfounded, since the Wahhabi/Salafi tradition rejects such things. Even Saudi kings are buried in unmarked graves.” Given all this, more people are likely to question whether bin Laden was killed on May 2 and whether his body was plopped into the Arabian Sea shortly thereafter. Very little evidence of a successful operation against bin Laden has been produced; and what evidence existed at the time continues to dwindle. Besides the mysteriously disappearing corpse, the compound in which bin Laden was supposedly killed was demolished last week. The Obama administration apparently expects the world to accept its version of events on faith alone — a kind of trust it has hardly earned over the past three years. But with the release of the Stratfor e-mails, which suggest that bin Laden’s body was not buried at sea (or at least not as quickly as the administration maintained), what many consider to be Obama’s one certified foreign policy achievement may well be called into question just as he is seeking reelection. Then again, if dead people can vote in Chicago, why couldn’t the supposed corpse of bin Laden play a role in the reelection or ouster of a President with roots in the Windy City’s political machine? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-06-2012, 10:59 PM	#2
pertikuss Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 383 Senior Member	UBL is gone, one way or another. Who cares? But on the linked site I found more interesting news about China attempt to buy advanced Sukhoi 35 fighter (for copy/paste purposes) [chin] Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-06-2012, 10:59 PM	#3
casefexas Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 412 Senior Member	Who cares? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-06-2012, 11:09 PM	#4
Nikkkola Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 548 Senior Member	It's amazing how quickly the entire UBL saga ended after his death, his mentioning by the talking heads at primetime news hour when discussing 9/11 is almost zero now. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-07-2012, 01:28 AM	#5
SHpuntik Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 608 Senior Member	Who cares? No one, but conspiracy nut jobs. He is dead, what happened with his body is irrelevant. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-07-2012, 03:01 AM	#6
joulseenjoync Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 488 Senior Member	Who cares? Al-Qaeda members? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-07-2012, 01:51 PM	#7
Bbjhjxfy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 398 Senior Member	No one, but conspiracy nut jobs. He is dead, what happened with his body is irrelevant. I care, and I'm not a conspiracy nutjob. If it's true then that means our government has once again lied to us. Not that it should be surprising, but then again that's an even bigger issues that we just assume the government lies to us every day and we take it in stride like it's nothing out of the ordinary. That's f'd up when an overpaid group of career politicians who make far more than the average person with insane benefits have the right to legislate your entire life and can tell lies and nobody cares. When did America get castrated? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-08-2012, 01:46 AM	#8
moopogyOvenny Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 657 Senior Member	Here's a news flash, I hope you are sitting down. The US government lies. Let it sink in before you try to do anything else the rest of the day, it's a truth that is not only shocking, but a total mind-****. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-08-2012, 03:12 AM	#9
zibTefapparia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 457 Senior Member	Here's a news flash, I hope you are sitting down. The US government lies. Let it sink in before you try to do anything else the rest of the day, it's a truth that is not only shocking, but a total mind-****. NO WAY!!! Honestly, I could not have cared less on what they did with the body. The US government could've fed it to pigs and I wouldn't have batted an eye. The man was our enemy, we neutralized him then took his body and his property. IMO the US government is free to do whatever they want to his body. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-08-2012, 03:17 AM	#10
HedoShoodovex Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 492 Senior Member	The man was our enemy. I bet you regret arming him to the teeth. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-08-2012, 03:20 AM	#11
SobiquYo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 368 Senior Member	Mmmm I already knew that 1 day after it happened Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-08-2012, 04:56 AM	#12
Sowsunese Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 402 Senior Member	I bet you regret arming him to the teeth. Nope, we used him to attack the Russians. Unfortunately, his being armed was the cost of killing 15k Soviet troops. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-08-2012, 05:02 AM	#13
Unrersvar Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 511 Senior Member	Speaking of the evil that men do... #Kony2012 [shocked][please] Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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