[adactthrd]

My word, the nuclear plant is leaking. Radiation levels are spiking.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...ke-plant-leak/

[gariharrr]

Very true. Which is probably why I'm confused that people within 10km are being evacuated if the plant workers are safe.

Yeah, the article terrannova posted confirms what I was going to say: the people were evacuated just to be on the safe side.

True, but any news update which contains the words and terms:

Radiation, Nuclear, 1000 times normal

Cannot be good imho.

Well, it obviously not good. Just how "not good" is it, that's the question.

[Nfxutkpa]

Pre-curser? (sp?)

I believe its spelled precursor, not sure though. And it really truly could be, i have no idea though - almost seems like superstition but my god its one of the strangest coincidences I've ever witnessed in my entire life. I made the thread to poke fun initially...

There are already articles out there linking it to Japan.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/cap..._japan_ea.html

Insanity

[cmruloah]

I was watching 2012 as this Earthquake began.

[DevaRextusidis]

Absolutely shocking.

[K0aM7urg]

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15...gency-24496683

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15...quake-24496612

[thehhhyips]

Anyone heard anything more about the affect on the Japanese economy, it was already under stress and this is NOT going to help it.

[VIAGRA-VIAGRA]

1 trillion usd damage is expected.

[thehhhyips]

1 trillion usd damage is expected.

Ouch, thought it would be even higher, to be honest!

Just been watching some more footage of the Nuclear Plant in question - still seems to be partially flooded witht he water at normal sea level - anyone know about changes in the land elevation? Ws wondering it if might be like after the Anchorage earthquake, where the land settled significantly, changing effective water levels and the topography of the land - this could mean the plant is effectively slightly below sea level, which may explain the power and generator problems they're reported to be having - possibly even flooded pumps?

Is it just me, or is new information rather difficult to find - most of the news services rehashing older news and videos from yesterday?

Anything from the chaps here that are living in Japan?

[brraverishhh]

[onelovemp]

Yeah, but none of us are experts on nuclear reactors, so we don't really know what that means exactly

It means exactly what it says, if true - the radiation levels (be them measured activity values of alpha, beta, neutron, etc or effective absorbed doses) are "1000 times" higher than the values normally expected within the control room. Now given that the control room isn't going to normally have levels anything out of the microsievert range, this would put it into the millisievert category. One can still work under such conditions but the amount of time an individual worker can spend in these conditions must now be substantially less in order for the worker's total dose per unit of time to remain within regulatory amounts.

The International Atomic Energy Authority are reporting on the situation with regular updates here:

http://www.iaea.org/press/

Japan has some of the tightest regulations concerning nuclear safety: this is in no way anything like a repetition of Chernobyl.

[AnriXuinriZ]

now i must ask - why cant they scram it? whats happened so they cant?

[TineSeign]

It means exactly what it says, if true - the radiation levels (be them measured activity values of alpha, beta, neutron, etc or effective absorbed doses) are "1000 times" higher than the values normally expected within the control room. Now given that the control room isn't going to normally have levels anything out of the microsievert range, this would put it into the millisievert category. One can still work under such conditions but the amount of time an individual worker can spend in these conditions must now be substantially less in order for the worker's total dose per unit of time to remain within regulatory amounts.

The International Atomic Energy Authority are reporting on the situation with regular updates here:

http://www.iaea.org/press/

Japan has some of the tightest regulations concerning nuclear safety: this is in no way anything like a repetition of Chernobyl.

Yep, people need to relax, 1000 times a very small number (i.e. most likely background radiation levels.) is still a small number. they are most likely reduced to smaller lengths of time to make sure they still dont go over their annual dose limits(which again is a better safe than sorry) number. Another thing to consider is what is that 1000 number comming from? which reading? Gamma, Beta? Isotopes? what is the source of the radiation? short lived, long lived? Its easy to spout out things like " nuclear meltdown" " or 100000000 times the normal levels!!!" but that is all sensalitionalized and does not reflect the actual conditions at the site.

One other thing to consider is that they still have several more methods for dealing with the reactor. First off the situation isnt dire enough for them to abandon "normal operating" procedures, I.E. albiet the natrual disaster is abnormal, the pressures/temperatures within the core are acceptable enough that they are ok with them even though primary coolant circulation is temporarily knocked out. Keep in mind, the core was shut down and whats left is merely decay heat. The core has seen its highest temperatures, it only goes down from here, the pressure can be vented off using normal operating procedures also, non-condesnsables to a bleed off tank with shitloads of filters etc, the rest being handled by the chemistry department by bleeds/chemical injections.

On the OFF CHANCE that decay heat does not go down fast enough and they still do not have backup power up and running for primary circulation to reduce decay heat, they can line up emergency cooling and thermal circulation should take effect with the secondaries providing cooling. If that doesnt work for some reason they can do feed and bleeds, where they bleed out hot water to collection tanks and then load in fresh cool water.

The fire in the turbine housing at the other plant is more of a cause for concern than the reactor with the primary cooling pumps down, that turbine normally operates with primary steam spinning the blades, depending on how bad the fire was, airbone radiation+fire= the REAL worst case, not what fox/cnn/whoeverelse say is the worst case.

Anyways folks, calm down, this is not your big chance to stomp up and down and holler " look look I told you nuclear=bad!!! waaaah" Nuclear regulations are the most restrictive of any process in the world, even NASA. They got hundreds if not thousands of peeps standing around ready to do anything at those plants, most are probably bored out of thier minds and laughing at the idiot press for making this into a bigger deal than it is. However, any casualtiy is serious and i wish all of the workers luck and safety, lets get that core back to normal operating conditions and get all of the plants back online so Japan can get fully powered again.

[TineSeign]

now i must ask - why cant they scram it? whats happened so they cant?

The reactor automatically scrammed itself when the quake happened, some type of Civilian/land based safety control Im not familiar with( I worked on Navy Reactors.)

The issue is Decay heat, the Fission reactions have "stopped" ( not all the way but for simplicity sake...) and now the daughter reactions, AKA Decay heat, are occuring. Its basically cooling down. Normally this is aided by the reactor coolant pumps untill its at "shutdown temps" but both the main and aux pumps went offline due to the quake. They are checking the brittle fracture curves and the engineering limits and allowing the core to cool on its own, if it doesnt cool enough they will go into Emergency cooling and/or Feed and Bleed.

[TineSeign]

Very true. Which is probably why I'm confused that people within 10km are being evacuated if the plant workers are safe.

Because they are protecting themselves from a worst worst worst case scenario...which would be civilians affected by radiation from one of thier plants. Nuclear = be 10000 times more carefull than you have to be.

Now, one thing to consider, I believe it to be unlikely, but one smart reason to evacuate people is that even though things are going ok and they have several more options for decay heat, if something happens in the core and heat and pressure rise beyond emergency coolings capablity, the core will eventually have to bleed pressure, in the very unlikely case that it bleeds pressure to earth atmosphere...well the wind will carry it where the wind will carry it.

Just remember that the Nuke community is so communicative with the general public that we often make ourselves look worse than we are because we report EVERYTHING to the general public. This evacuation is just one more way of us to build trust with the general public. Heaven help us if radiation does go into atmosphere, better to be safe than sorry and go ahead and evac people even if its not needed.

[TineSeign]

Yeah, but none of us are experts on nuclear reactors, so we don't really know what that means exactly

What is it that you would like to know?

[AnriXuinriZ]

its allways been my understanding that the actual core is the safest component in the chain - other `parts` are far weaker , and when things go wrong - its the weakest part which goes first (usually).

edit:

they have allready announced they are going to bleed pressure off.

edit 2: news reporting a fresh explosion and a plume of ` white` smoke at a second reactor building on the same site, Daiichi (venting) and Daini (explosion); reports are they have detected `caesium and iodine ` and the Daiichi core.

[TineSeign]

its allways been my understanding that the actual core is the safest component in the chain - other `parts` are far weaker , and when things go wring - its the weakest part which goes first (usually).

edit:

they have allready announced they are going to bleed pressure off.

edit 2: news reporting a fresh explosion and a plume of ` white` smoke at a second reactor building on the same site, Daiichi (venting) and Daini (explosion)

Im not sure about the quality thing, the core's themselves are very intricate and engineered to not **** up, Im not sure about civilian plants, but the nuke plants I worked in all the parts were way more than what was needed to add an extra cushion of safety.

Hmmm, white smoke? or white steam from Daini?

Cesium and Iodine? Sounds like daughter products from fission if my 5 year old nuke knowledge is still worth anything. I.E. Since the reactor was scrammed and the nuetrons stopped inducing fission reactions, the fission products are decaying and the daughter products, the cesium and iodine isotopes are what is left. Normally these hang out in the core during decay and are a sign that the shutdown is going properly....at least from what I remember.

[AnriXuinriZ]

japanese media is reporting that radiation levels outside the damaged reactor has increased ` at least 20 fold` since the explosion a few minutes ago and the media is being moved back.


edit;

whilst they hang around inside the core - what are they doing outside......

edit 2:

they are allready pumping water in - they started pumping an hour ago and 30 mins later theres what they are saying is a steam explosion - with workers injured


Japan's NHK TV showing before and after pictures of the Fukushima-Daiichi plant. It appears to show that the outer structure of one of four buildings at the plant is no longer there.

[lapyignipinge]

its allways been my understanding that the actual core is the safest component in the chain - other `parts` are far weaker , and when things go wrong - its the weakest part which goes first (usually).

edit:

they have allready announced they are going to bleed pressure off.

edit 2: news reporting a fresh explosion and a plume of ` white` smoke at a second reactor building on the same site, Daiichi (venting) and Daini (explosion); reports are they have detected `caesium and iodine ` and the Daiichi core.

Some casualties are feared because of the building collapse. Core is partially melted but nothing catastrophical. (official word)

edit: explosion propably was "just" high temp./pressure steam.