[Goksiodiffeli]

I have come to several realizations that I am going to try to put into words. These realizations are not going to be popular.....but I believe have enough merit that I want to share them with you.

Lets discuss morals first. Contrary to popular belief, we are not born with morals. They are instilled in us by upbringing, society, religion, and laws. Beyond that.....we are nothing more than highly evolved animals. That being said....we all obviously don't have the same moral codes. Some people think its ok to cheat, and some don't.

The problem with this is, we are pressured through society, religion, family.......even TV and movies, to believe in "the one." We are "supposed" to get married and live happily ever after.

But we don't. Why?

It goes back to moral codes and genetics. Genetics tell a man to lust after every woman he sees. At the basic root of that, is Mother Nature telling him to procreate for the survival of the species. We aren't meant to be monogamous. We are meant to procreate and protect. Do moral codes prevent the more basic animal from taking over....leading to adultery? Sometimes. But obviously not all the time.

Women, OTOH.......genetics tell them to make babies, and nest. Provide a good home. She spends the first part of her life looking for the strongest mate she can find to impregnate her. After she gets her baby(ies), she spends the rest of her time making sure she has a good home and making sure her mate provides to HER standard of living.

So how does all this apply to cheaters? Simple. Women ask why a man will sleep with someone lesser than her. She doesn't understand how some trailer trash skank was more appealing than her. The simple answer is....she wasn't more appealing. She was just easy and new.....and his nature overcame his morals.

Women tho....who do they "usually" cheat with? A boss. A higher level coworker. A ranking member of the church her and her husband attend.....and so on and so forth. Her genetics are telling her that she needs someone "better" than her husband. That "better" translates into a more comfortable life/existance for her and her baby(ies) in her mind.

So....you have cheaters and non cheaters. Moral codes that are different from others. Now, how do you survive knowing that fact? Honestly? I have no clue.

At 35 years old and two failed marriages later, I realize that marriage is..........not for me. I'm tired of trying to do what society expects everyone to do, and be miserable for it. Trying to do the "right" thing is subjective....cause whats right for me may not be right for you. Only you can decide that.

As a person who has been cheated on, I realize that I can't control anyone. Marriage is a sign of ownership. But you don't own that person. They don't own you. You choose to be faithful....or not. And if they aren't....what can you really do? The truth is....nothing. Noone cares. And I'm tired of being a victim. I'm tired of the whining and pissing and moaning. I'm tired of "taking the moral high road." There isn't one.

I'm to a point now where I want to beat the bastards at their own game. WHY should I suffer when I haven't done anything wrong? WHY should I be the one who has the doubt and pain? WHY should I be the one who takes the "moral high road" when all that does is makes me feel like a *****. I WANT to strike back. I WANT them to hurt like I hurt. Turning the other cheek doesn't work well for me. And I swear I have turned it for the LAST time.

[zooworms]

Sorry you have come to this point.

[tevyrefficy]

Monster, some potentially contentious stuff, but you make some good points worth discussion.

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[Goksiodiffeli]

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[tevyrefficy]

Yes each persons moral playbook will be slightly different, but some basics should be constant. The golden oldie out of the bible "do unto others as you would have them do to you", to me, is one of those. I don't like it when someone is an a##hole to me ( eg lies, steals, cheats). I therefore don't do it to anyone.

But if you want to sleep with someone different every week, then good luck to you.

[EzekelEnzino]

Hi Monster,

I just wanted to say I am sorry that you are feeling this way. When we have been hurt it makes us angry and wanting to lash out. Sometimes bitter and questioning why we should live honorable lives when it doesn't seem to be appreciated by anyone.

From your post it makes me think that you believe in the theory of evolution. Am I wrong about that? Do you have a belief in God at all? I do and if you don't mind I just wanted to reply regarding what I've researched for many years.

Mankind has become so far removed from God's principles that those of us that try to live up to His standards really have a struggle because of the badness all around us.

In your comment about morals, you say that we aren't born with them. I'm not sure if we are born with them but we were created in God's image. We are born with his qualities which are power, justice, wisdom, mercy and love.

We are born with a conscience. This is why in most cultures on earth, from ancient times to now, even if they don't know anything about Almighty God, they have certain rules they live by, like not murdering, stealing, etc.
Think about a little child. Have you ever seen little ones when they see someone crying? Nine out of ten times they react. Patting the person on the back looking concerned. In one study, one group of 18 month old children were given candy and when they saw the other child crying they kept trying to give their candy to the upset child. These little ones don't know anything about God yet or morals but they were trying to do something good. Because it is in our DNA..the way God created us to comfort and show mercy.
You mention moral codes that are different from others. Well yes, my husband works hard, would never steal or murder but sex is just business to him.
That is his code but it doesn't mean it is a correct one. His conscience along with many others has been dulled by repetitive wrong doing. The more wrong we do the more comfortable we become with it. From the beginning man has gotten into trouble by wanting to follow his own code.

What has it gotten him? Where are we in this world now? Wars, lawlessness, materialism, gross sexual appetite, parents killing children, children killing parents. Children killing children. And to top it all off our thirst for technology has brought us many good inventions but now we have the capacity to annihilate ourselves in a nuclear holocaust.

Anguish of nations not knowing the way out. (Luke 21:25) Because so many want to do it their way and answer to no one. If it feels good do it.

People living like this never find contentment or happiness because we weren't created that way. That is one reason why antidepressants are a billion dollar industry
Whose morals you ask? Almighty God's. He created us. He knows what works for us and what doesn't.

[Goksiodiffeli]

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[EzekelEnzino]

You are correct. After Jesus' apostles were long dead, apostasy began to creep into the Christian congregations just as he prophesied. The world council of churches decided they needed more converts, thus the many pagan rituals that consume Christianity today.
I guess you could say religion is a form of control. I would prefer guidance. We initially only had the one law,which our first parents broke. Thus the laws that followed to aid imperfect man.
In an age where people are generally cynical about the Bible and orthodox religions, the Apocryphal writings you talk about seem to have struck a responsive chord.
The discovery of these documents have popularized the theory that in the fourth century C.E. the Catholic church conspired to cover up the truth about Jesus life and the 4 Gospels were altered. They seem to want to lead us to believe that the early Christian movement, founded by Jesus, was profoundly feminist since the first domestic churches were women's houses where they officiated as priests and bishops.ie "The real Mary Magdalene"

Are they a legitimate source of Christian faith? When they contradict clear Bible teachings, which source should we believe?
A valuable fragment of the Gospel of John was found in Egypt at the turn of the 20th century, preserved at the John Rylands Library in England. The oldest manuscript fragment of the New Testament in existence believed to be written about 125 C.E. The text is nearly identical with later manuscripts. It has been concluded by Bible Scholars that this Gospel was recorded in the first century by John, an eyewitness.
On the other hand the Apocryphal writings all date from the 2nd century on. a hundred years or more after the event they describe had taken place.
Vatican 1209 and Bodmer 14, 15 proves no significant changes were made to Biblical Gospels.
After examining a collection of manuscript fragments discovered at Oxyrhynchus, Egypt, Dr. Peter M. Head, of Cambridge University writes in general terms these manuscripts confirm there is nothing which requires new understanding of the New Testament.

If interested you can also read about Tatian and the Diatessaron with commentaries on it in Arabic, Armenian, Greek, and Latin.

Plus as for me just as a side note naive as I may be, I don't believe God would allow his word to be changed or polluted otherwise what would mankind have as a guide in life? It would be unjust and all His ways are just.

As for as your theory of highly evolved animals and the murderers and drug dealers in the ghetto...there may be a higher number because of environmental factors but not every one who is poor and in the ghetto are predators. Not everyone who lives in suburbia and goes to church is Mr. Rogers.
I agree with you. Humans are selfish and prone to badness. The psamist King David said his inclination all the time was to do bad. He struggled constantly to do the right thing. It is so much easier to do bad than good because of our sinful inheritance.
Monster, have you ever thought that there are people who do their best to live a life based on Bible principles because of their love for God and the thought of offending him would be repugnant?
I believe God really knows the makeup of man and woman. I always found it interesting that he says to cleave to one another etc etc but when he describes the relationship, he says the husband should love his wife as his own body....the wife should have deep respect for her husband.
I guess the emotional aspect of woman needs that deep loving care she gets from her husband. The man's ego needs the deep respect.
Maybe because of the family I was raised in I was able to see true love. No one was walking around constantly moon eyed at each other but they laughed and touched and did small things for each other and raised happy children. My parents are old now but it is still there...maybe more so.

My aunt passed away last year and my uncle still goes every week to her grave with flowers and talks to her. He said he's been keeping a journal so he doesn't forget to tell her things. Did you ever read my post about my Aunt Lia and Uncle Frank? What a love story.....so it makes me sad that you feel this way.
Maybe that is why even though I've lived a nightmare I never would have imagined, I can deal because I just figure I am one of the many who got one of the regular people...maybe I didn't look hard enough for that gem. I was very young and perhaps missed some signals, I don't know but one thing I do know is I have had great men in my family and as friends and not only do I love them but I also like them a heck of alot.

[Goksiodiffeli]

Going beyond what I have already said......look at the similarity between Jesus and Horus. Jesus' story is almost an exact copy of Horus, who predated Jesus by 1000 years.

Again....I'm not knocking religion. I just don't believe religion as we know it, is at all accurate. And that it evolved as a form of societal control to bring us out of the caves to where we are today.

And I was using the gangbanger as an extreme reference only. How about the preacher who sleeps with a member of his congregation? If anyone has that moral code we are discussing, it should be a preacher, right? He teaches that moral code.

We aren't naturally gifted with morality. It is beaten into us by our parents, and society, much like you train a dog not to pee on the rug. If morality was natural....then why don't we all have the same morals?

[bashansasasasa]

What you're really debating is the nature versus nuture debate.

However, if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that we are born as blank slates.

I don't know if I buy the blank slate theory -- if it's true, it means that we we are born blank...and that we are social beings whose personalities, actions, beliefs, values, BEHAVIOURS are learned. And if that is the case, your argument that men and women are biologically driven to do X doesn't hold water. at all. It can't ... not if we are truly born as blank slates.

So you're argument is flawed.

That aside, I think (IMO) that it is more likely that we are a delightful blend of nature and nuture. And we are, in that way, very unique and not as primordial as you suggest.

I have no desire for children. I am not compelled to nest. No interest. The desire that women have to do so that may, in fact, be more about social conditioning than biology.

who knows.

And men may be socially conditioned to 'spread their seed' - lol. Who knows.

I don't think it really matters if it's nature or nuture. I think what matters is that individuals with character will NOT cheat on partners. There are a myriad of options available and blaming biology for cheating is akin to asserting that cheaters have no choice...that it's a biological determinant. BS.

KitKat

[Goksiodiffeli]

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[brulpcoersero]

In the end it comes up what effect do you want to have on the evnvironment around you, when you give love and get it back and you have higher standards things feel much better, am I wrong?
If you are negative and take and way and give nothing back you feel worse?
I can totallly understand where you are coming from, my ex stole everything from me and I am in the angry stage, but....I find love in other things, not from a man but from my family, in volunteering and giving to those that need, that is fullfilling.
Its the scripture and the love teaching of Jesus that for me, are the right way I do not look at the man that teaches but the word, and I try really hard to focus on that and I really try hard to keep an open mind. Humans can be greedy and full of flaws and they can drive alot of people away from the truth.
Do not let your experiences with the wicked keep you from a good opportunity (whatever that may be) keep an open mind and chose another route.
I really do understand what you are feeling, believe me I deal with wanting to beat that MF'R into the ground everyday, but I am learning slowly to chanel it, I really hope you can find a good way for yourself because I bet with your passion you have alot to offer life, what ever that is you chose to do.

[Pataacculakp]

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[Goksiodiffeli]

Why thank you ma'am.

[EzekelEnzino]

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[Goksiodiffeli]

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