[otheloComRole]

Don't let them do it, Pekka.

Allowing yourself to be ripped off is not Zen, it is being a doormat. You also would not be doing the profession any favours by allowing the PM to advance his career based on a fraud.

[Gremlinn]

Don't let them do it, Pekka.

Allowing yourself to be ripped off is not Zen, it is being a doormat. You also would not be doing the profession any favours by allowing the PM to advance his career based on a fraud.

Exactly! I've been trying the whole Zen thing lately, to be calm about everything and negative things happen, that's the way it is and now forward, if I let it hurt my mind I'm paying a price that is unnecessary. That is, I'm doing the damage to myself, while I could be Zen with it and feel good, live long and prosper.

But this is getting to be ridiculous. On the other hand, I've accepted worse crap while actually working at a University, then again, I swore I'd never let it happen to me, never ever again. And here we are again. I have this saying now "If it's a Uni thing, it's bound to fail". This refers to organizing skills, communication skills and overall competency of running things. This doesn't apply to everyone, but most. And the failures are just on a level that is even difficult to comprehend. Like are you ****ing serious?

I've let the PM know that this is unacceptable in addition to being unethical and highly disappointing. Unacceptable in terms of I will not agree to this even if you are going to do it. It's like being an author to a paper and then the co-author takes the paper, gives it to someone else and they get paid for it. I'm trying not to learn the lesson of doing things for free if you think it might work in the future. I'm trying not to become one of the "so how much will you pay me" as the first question having people. But it seems to me that I should not underestimate the awesome scale of failing outcomes that are possible. It doesn't matter if some of them are unethical or illegal, it just might happen and they'll just call it a day and leave you with a stick to beat yourself over about it.

I say to myself, "I'm not a doormat" but then I feel bad for them! Them being anyone in a similar situation. I wouldn't feel bad if they were just being criminal because of it, but if it's due to incompetency, I just go "OK too bad". I shouldn't do that. But I don't know how to fight back. It's easier with fists, and it's easier with my own business. With my own business I just say no and that's the end of it. Now? I don't know, I'm overwhelmed by the wtf of the situation.

[DenisMoor]

Actually, you know what? If he's gotten anywhere in academia, he damned well ought to know what plagiarism is. Over here, at least, the first thing you sign at the start of every college class is a statement that says "I know what plagiarism is, I will not just copy-paste a ton of stuff from Wikipedia or somewhere and call it my original ideas, and if I do I will get a zero and go to college hell." So this guy's got to either have his head really far up his arse, or simply not care. I'd say your next move should depend on his response, but on reflection he really, really ought to know better.

[Q0KmoR8K]

I find that revenge always makes me feel better. Especially when the response is greatly disproportionate to the original offense.

Kind of hard to cut me off in a race with two broken legs, isn't that right *****?!

[prehighaltitudesjj]

Elok, he REALLY ought to know better. It's difficult for me to be calm. I act calmly but inside I'm burning with rage. There's even history why he shouldn't be acting like this: he reached to me if he could join a closed seminar of our research group that was meant for sponsors, and I basically gave him a pass even though I didn't have the power to do it. Afterward, I reached to him saying that do you like this subject, we should set up a project if you really want to do it because no one else is going to do it so we just do it ourselves. So understand my burning sensation of betrayal, as I don't get to participate in my own project now. It's not even about the money. It's about how dare you and not even realize what you're doing.

I talked to a former colleague of mine who is still doing research and knows some of the laws as well. This is, of course, strictly forbidden and not OK but he said it's worse than unethical. If someone comes with a research plan, or even an idea that hey this would be cool and is an integral part of driving that idea forward, they should be included in any case, even if they would be juniors. But I'm pulling seniority as well (which is nuts!). So, the point is, you can't raise money and campaign to potential sponsors that this is the team that will do it, and then only include SOME of the team later on. That's not what the sponsors saw. So even from that POV, it's crooked. Even more so when the content is not solely theirs. It's partially my **** up there, it's my face up there, it's my NAME up there, and then you just take my name and face off 2 days before deadline, with no warning, and no justification?

dashi, I try not to think about that, I might get too obsessed and the aftermath is feeling worse

aivo, Hah, that's actually funny Thanks.

[nretdjuend]

That's a pretty good one, I'll have to wait for his response though to my mail in which I explained that this is unacceptable and that I'm waiting for his explanation/solution ASAP. I told him he could call me any time as well, it's 12.04AM already... I don't think he'll be calling me. I guess I'll be calling him, then.

[dubballey]

Situations like this are why I never work with anyone else. Trust is not a good thing.

[mirzaterak]

double post

[enurihent]

Exactly! I've been trying the whole Zen thing lately, to be calm about everything and negative things happen, that's the way it is and now forward, if I let it hurt my mind I'm paying a price that is unnecessary. That is, I'm doing the damage to myself, while I could be Zen with it and feel good, live long and prosper.

F**k Zen, take them to the cleaners - it's a dog eat dog world, and let's start, they have tried eating your dog first...it's unprofessional. But then again this is academia for you, I am so glad I left when I did.

[Metalhead]

You hold them by the balls, so they need to do something for you in return. Negotiate out of them what you want.

Exactly my current thoughts.

At first, I figured I'd want to work with the project and I just need to let the young PM know that what he is doing is just not the way things are done. And then he'd come up with a solution. Still haven't heard from him.

So I'm starting to be at a point where negative feelings are starting to reroute from pointing at myself to the project itself. As in I don't want anything to do with this ****. This is a good indicator of what is to come - I have learned that lesson to the extreme. I will not repeat the same mistake. There is no malicious intent, it's just pure incompetence and lack of thought. But that leads us all to hell in the end and we will all pay the price of those **** ups that could have been avoided.

In other words, if they want to do this, it's time to propose and negotiate, I'm all ears as to what would be beneficial to me. Time is running out though. But it is not, fortunately for me, my problem anymore.

[smazibummigue]

Yeah, that's Plagiarism for sure. Go get 2 bricks and tell him what you are going to do to him.

[gedsiz]

Well, that thing surely sucked, but we negotiated a deal.

No money in it for me, but all other credit plus no responsibility (unless I want to). So I'll get it to my CV in any case, plus they need to do something else with the plan that I particularly wanted to, and I'll take that part and just take it somewhere else instead. In short, I have my fingers around that project but I also get my own project should I prepare one later on with someone else. These were conditions so they can apply. Any non-compliance later on will be handled.

[WaicurtaitfuT]

Sounds good to me, as long as you're not really hurting for cash or anything.