[YonkFiorc]

This is a perfect example of Too fast for Conditions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzJofsj7Ydo

[kSmica]

Hey, Friuty, how's the car coming along, saw a couple of nicely modifies series 2 "F" bodies like yours the other day - still look good.

Actually double the speed, four times the stopping distance - the average speed is doubled and so is the time to stop = four times the distance. I know people who still insist double the speed, double the stopping distance... just as some believe ABS means they stop as well on a slippery/wet surface as a dry one*.

I would hope you guys that outdrive your lights don't continue at speed into fog, snow, smoke, dust** or whatever, as that's how the big motorway crashes occur!

*On another forum, there was a guy asking why his brakes failed on snow and ice, even after having them overhauled - it was just the ABS reducing the braking effectiveness due to the slippery surface, of course.

**A few years ago I was travelling on a road with around a mile of visability, there was a cloud of dust from a parallel dirt road to the left (we drive on the left, like the UK) and it started to blow onto the road I was on, with a drop in visability. As I approached the dust cloud I thought "better slow down, there might be something in this", dispite the road having been clear. I braked quite hard as I entered it, slowing right down and suddenly the rear of a truck trailer appeared about 5 feet in front of me as I entered the dust cloud. Turned out there was a truck on the dirt road and he'd just pulled out onto my road dispite not being able to see anything eitrher - if I had just kept driving, "knowing" the road was 'clear', as some of you would seem to do, I would have crashed hard into the rear of the trailer and most likely have been killed.

[YonkFiorc]

Hey, Friuty, how's the car coming along, saw a couple of nicely modifies series 2 "F" bodies like yours the other day - still look good.

Hibernation. Haven't done anything to it but take it for a spin after a strangely warm and rainy weekend in December after the salt got cleared off the road. Squirrelly as ever in this weather with the summer tires on it.

I did buy a 98 Camaro dash, door panels, and center console for my interior swap. Got the body harness, gauge cluster, and a few other things with it.

In late February or March the engine will be removed and the heads/cam installed, along with the 6spd. If I can swing the time I'll be re-painting the engine bay. Should be able to put the 17x9" ZR1 rims on it at the same time after they've been powdercoated.

I'll be able to re-wire the car now to have cool conveniences like auto lowering windows (when you open the door the window drops about 1" so it doesn't damage the seals). Retained accessory power for 15 minutes, remote door lock, trunk release.

Also planning on re-wiring the headlight harness so it uses a relay to draw directly from the battery vs pulling through the main fuse box.

I lose about 2 volts from the battery to the headlight sockets. This will give me the full 14 volts the system has when running. Should help make the lights MUCH brighter on low-beam. They are kind of dim right now.

http://the12volt.com has been a great website to me over the years.

[kSmica]

When I was running the light setup mentioned earlier, I used a separate fused relay for each light filament (6 in total), with nice thick wiring for the relay to lights and earths. I used some (light) starter cable for the bus for the relays, with a feed from both the battery and alternator - less than 0.1V drop!
Not sure if semi-sealed QH lights were legal in the US then - worthwhile upgrade if not already fitted. If the headlight shells are metal (plastic will melt), you could also consider using higher wattage bulbs, or just use the Zenon or High Intensity type bulbs.

[tousuarshatly]

Gordo is right, and it takes a certain type of stupid to not drive to the conditions.

Conditions?... It's dark out and your car is equipped with headlights.

[EjPWyPm4]

I've only had rear end accidents where I've been hit. I think to myself, howcome I can see you coming in my rear vision mirror and have enough time to give you the finger before you hit, while for some reason you can't see me and I'm right in front of you. [rolleyes]

[viagraman]

I've only had rear end accidents where I've been hit. I think to myself, howcome I can see you coming in my rear vision mirror and have enough time to give you the finger before you hit, while for some reason you can't see me and I'm right in front of you. [rolleyes]

Other than the fact that headlights can be seen from much further than they can see....nothing I suppose.

[TXmjLW9b]

Had a car crash when I got my licence, rolled a few times, which was fun. The only thing that went through my head at the time was glass.

[EjPWyPm4]

Other than the fact that headlights can be seen from much further than they can see....nothing I suppose.

What? That made no sense.

[viagraman]

What? That made no sense.

You can see a light from a lot further distance than it can see you.

Think of a star. You can see them, millions of miles away, but there is no way they are bright enough to light up anything on earth. Hence, just because you saw someone in your rear view mirror in time doesn't mean that they saw you.

[kSmica]

You can see a light from a lot further distance than it can see you.

Think of a star. You can see them, millions of miles away, but there is no way they are bright enough to light up anything on earth. Hence, just because you saw someone in your rear view mirror in time doesn't mean that they saw you.

i assume he also had his (tail) lights on and probably brake lights if he was stationary.
So the other driver should have seen his lights.

[viagraman]

i assume he also had his (tail) lights on and probably brake lights if he was stationary.
So the other driver should have seen his lights.

If he was already stationary it would just be tail lights on unless he was using the foot brake. They are a lot duller than headlights but you're right, they should have been seen. LL was querying why a driver couldn't see him by headlights when he could see them in his rear-view and I was trying to explain how that could happen.

[Clilmence]

Conditions?... It's dark out and your car is equipped with headlights.

Yes and? You've been saying that you drive at a speed that creates a greater stopping distance than your visibility right? If not you are arguing with Gordo for no reason. He is right, whether it's a blind corner or dark highway, the smart thing to do is drive only as far as you can see.

I'm no stickler to the speed limit, I'm often driving over the speed limit when conditions dictate it's safe (draconian speed limit's here in OZ compared to real world performance). And I was an avid kart racer, speed (specifically cornering and braking) is in my blood.

BUT I will not drive blindly into the distance when I'm driving with sense, your just rolling the dice doing otherwise.

[viagraman]

Yes and? You've been saying that you drive at a speed that creates a greater stopping distance than your visibility right? If not you are arguing with Gordo for no reason. He is right, whether it's a blind corner or dark highway, the smart thing to do is drive only as far as you can see.

I'm no stickler to the speed limit, I'm often driving over the speed limit when conditions dictate it's safe (draconian speed limit's here in OZ compared to real world performance). And I was an avid kart racer, speed (specifically cornering and braking) is in my blood.

BUT I will not drive blindly into the distance when I'm driving with sense, your just rolling the dice doing otherwise.

At no point has anyone said that you should out-drive your visibility I don't think. The discussion has been about driving too slowly for conditions. On a dark motorway you'd be hard pressed to find any car that didn't have enough visibility on dipped beam to drive at the speed limit safely.

[kSmica]

At no point has anyone said that you should out-drive your visibility I don't think. The discussion has been about driving too slowly for conditions. On a dark motorway you'd be hard pressed to find any car that didn't have enough visibility on dipped beam to drive at the speed limit safely.

There are at least three who have said it's OK to drive faster than they can stop in the clear road they can see - they rely on luck, apparently, to keep the road clear.

I thought LL meant that as he could see the other car's lights, they should have been able to see his lights. I could be wrong, though.

[viagraman]

I thought LL meant that as he could see the other car's lights, they should have been able to see his lights. I could be wrong, though.

I think that's what he meant. But he will have been able to see their headlights from a much greater distance than they will have seen his stoplights.

There are at least three who have said it's OK to drive faster than they can stop in the clear road they can see - they rely on luck, apparently, to keep the road clear.

Personally I wouldn't dream of doing less than the speed limit on a motorway even if it's pitch dark (excluding fog, rain, snow or ice) and I just have my headlights. I frequently drive quite slowly on normal roads though when I can't see very far. I think the calculated risk of hitting something on the motorway is just too low to worry.

1) There are multiple lanes to go across, even if I can't see far enough to stop I can see far enough to safely go round an object.

2) If a motorway is so dark that the above is necessary I can be 99% sure I won't be driving dangerously for other road users

3) If an accident blocks all lanes then it's going to be big enough to be lit (hazard lights, headlights, stoplights from multiple vehicles) from a long way.

The risk of all three of those factors failing isn't great enough for me to do 40mph on a motorway.

[DoctorDulitlBest]

Right before? I wouldn't think anything but to react to the situation from a driving aspect. Not going to sit there and have a montage of my life over the next 10 seconds when I could do something about it.

[kSmica]

I think that's what he meant. But he will have been able to see their headlights from a much greater distance than they will have seen his stoplights.

They ran into him, I figure they should have seen his lights far enough away to stop.

Personally I wouldn't dream of doing less than the speed limit on a motorway even if it's pitch dark (excluding fog, rain, snow or ice) and I just have my headlights. I frequently drive quite slowly on normal roads though when I can't see very far. I think the calculated risk of hitting something on the motorway is just too low to worry.

1) There are multiple lanes to go across, even if I can't see far enough to stop I can see far enough to safely go round an object.

Depends on the traffic - you don't want to sideswipe something as that, or even just a sudden lane change, can cause a loss of control. Even if there is a vehicle alongside that you don't hit, it restricts your chance of getting into another lane.

2) If a motorway is so dark that the above is necessary I can be 99% sure I won't be driving dangerously for other road users.

Depends on the situation, as I said previously, if you're following another vehicle, you would probably get an indication from it if there was something on the road - unless it dropped something. If the road is clear, you can probably use high beam.

3) If an accident blocks all lanes then it's going to be big enough to be lit (hazard lights, headlights, stoplights from multiple vehicles) from a long way.

Depends how soon after an accident you come across it - often there will be no, or little, lighting initially - a single unbroken taillight can be deceptive and by the time you realise it's stationary, it's probably too late. It could be debris, as I said, or a broken down vehicle with a failed battery - you may pick up the reflection from it's rear reflectors if you're lucky. There are also a lot of other hazards that would not be lit up, like stock and spillages.

The risk of all three of those factors failing isn't great enough for me to do 40mph on a motorway.

You don't have to be restricted to 40mph, unless you've candles for headlights, however you should be travelling at a safe speed, in the slow lane if required.
Your claim that wouldn't drive less than the speed limit just demonstrates you are not only a reckless driver, but one who makes a point of driving illegally (yes, I have done so frequently when conditions are good, but I don't find my abilities threatened by driving a fair bit under if the conditions require it, keeping to the left and being aware of traffic around me).

[viagraman]

Your claim that wouldn't drive less than the speed limit just demonstrates you are not only a reckless driver, but one who makes a point of driving illegally

What are you on about you raving lunatic???? I have xenon headlights and I can see perfectly far enough on a dark motorway to travel at 70mph and be able to stop in the distance I can see.

Stop assuming you know everything about everyone! I get it, you're an old man and you like to think you're imparting your wisdom on us young whippersnappers, but I haven't caused an accident yet and I'm not planning too.

They ran into him, I figure they should have seen his lights far enough away to stop.

I know this, and you know this, but I was trying to explain to him how he could see their lights so much further away than they saw him.

[EjPWyPm4]

lets just say I've seen both guys in both accidents that ran into me. First one was twilight. So both our heatlights are on, and the other guy it was day light so headlights were off.

When you learn to drive here you're taught to have a quick peak in the rear vision mirror every 10 seconds to be aware of who is around you. That's how I drive, I know the situation of cars in front and behind. In accident 1 we were cut off and traffic was congested ahead so I had to break a little hard to avoid having an accident myself. The other guy had plenty of room to stop but he wasn't concentrating and pretty much braked last second not realising everyone ahead had almost stopped.

Accidnet two. Was stopped at a railway crossing. The guy just smacked right into me, in what was a bloody retarded rear end accident, as his approach to my car was pretty slow, just that he failed to break.