[reervieltnope]

[Switiespils]

No, it's far more complex than all that...

People need to seriously see how much of Corlen Hafren's proposal is actually feasible...

Make us see, in that case. Otherwise those words are just a waste of time.

[Fegemiembendy]

Oh, PS:

WALES! WALES! WALES!

[appletango]

Barrage = the very real risk of the BPA losing its deep sea container port!

Corlan Hafren proposes building the equivalent in Port Talbot...

Be careful what you wish for, Bugs...

Is that all? I'll take the barrage, thanks.

[feeshyLew]

I'll still take both the barrage and the extra nuclear power station at Hinkley Point, thanks. A decade sounds quite quick- if it was a nuclear power station, the public inquiries and debates would take that long before a single brick was laid.

[SasortFkire]

It's strikingly reminiscent of when I lived in Cardiff 20 years back, and the proposed Cardiff Bay Barrage.

"IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE!! IT'LL TURN THE WHOLE AREA INTO A STINKING OPEN SEWER!! IT'LL DESTROY THE UNIQUE CHARACTER OF TIGER BAY!! IT'LL BE A WHITE ELEPHANT!!! THINK OF THE DUCKS AND WADING SEABIRDS!! IT'LL DESTROY THE FABRIC OF THE UNIVERSE AS WE KNOW IT!!!"

But they built it. And it was great, and turned the Bay into a lovely place whilst providing a big boost to the local economy. With fewer Shelducks, admittedly, but you can't win 'em all.

So if they do take the cheapest option which would close Bristol's docks to container ships, that could move about 500 jobs to Port Talbot- which (with the improved transport links provided by the Sever Barrage) would be about a 20 minute drive away. I know- it's the end of the world. Plus there would be some 20,000 local jobs in the construction, followed by longer-term employment from the ongoing operation of the barrage.

Plus roughly a million environmental arguments in favour of it, of course.

I'll definitely take the barrage, thanks.

[Finanziamento]

Also - Port Talbot is already an industrial hell on earth. Perfect for a container port.

Yes it is, it looks awesome driving past it at night time - it literally does look like hell on earth then!

Funnily enough the air quality is still better than standing on Oxford St in London...

[Dogxzysl]

You're deliberately missing the point.

[sharpyure]

Already the barrage plan has changed significantly because of this massive scrutiny, which is definitely a good thing.

Is it definitely a good thing or is a bold ambitious plan being whittled down by pressure from special interest groups?

I genuinely don't have a view either way on changes in this case - have no idea what they are - but think it's rarely that simple.

[Sandra_18X]

The amount of water needed to fill it.

[Clilmence]

Actually I'm 100% in favour of harnessing the huge tidal potential of the estuary. Also the barrage and its knock-on effects would be hugely beneficial for Cardiff and South Wales as a whole!

But the question still remains about harnessing the correct technology and limiting the negatives as much as possible, instead of blindly rushing forth and picking the first bright shiny thing that's put in front of you!

It's a bit like why we chose the inferior petrol engine over the diesel engine in the beginning of the 20th century, or the fact that Diesel was originally looking into getting them to run on vegetable oil instead of, well, diesel. The rest, as they say, is history...

Already the barrage plan has changed significantly because of this massive scrutiny, which is definitely a good thing. But is it even the right plan in the first place?

This thing isn't something we can just take down again if we decide we don't like it...

Other than the obviously batshit ideas, how do you judge a technology without working examples?

[masterboyz]

You've gone quiet, Mobius. Seriously, what's your preferred plan?

[Alex Photographer]

Mythical barrage would last for eternity.

Oh noes, that means an infinite amount of nukes.

[MasdMnPa]

Is it definitely a good thing or is a bold ambitious plan being whittled down by pressure from special interest groups?

No, actually. Every change I've seen has been a positive one - the initial plans only had turbines capable of generating power in one direct, FFS!

Actually it's great to watch, as the pro and anti barrage groups circle each other coming up with ever more clever arguments and counter arguments, you are actually getting closer to a barrage that might ultimately fulfil every potential that it can!

I genuinely don't have a view either way on changes in this case - have no idea what they are - but think it's rarely that simple. Which is what I've been saying about this all along...

[casinobonusese]

I started one and accidentally deleted it the other day and then went meh...

Anyway, it's obviously really. Look at all the possible alternatives before picking the best one. The jury is out on what is the best way to harness the estuary's potential.

There's all sorts of alternatives: fences, lagoons, underwater turbines etc...

Also is where the barrage is planned to go even the best place for it? There are several other possible locations for it...

As well as all the pros, there's also plenty of cons which need to be adequately addressed - they're all well known. Ones that haven't been mentioned so far include: Siltation (probably not that bad - could in fact become a valuable resource in the future!); the likely death knell of the BPC's deep sea container terminal proposals that have now got planning consent and resultant compensation; energy subsidies that will make the wind turbine ones look like chicken feed (the public might not pay up front - but you can bet your bottom dollar that we'll be paying 'downstream'!); increased flooding and coastal erosion on the seaward side of the barrage; the epic CO2 costs of pouring a gazillion tons of concrete into the estuary; the fact that if you suddenly realise you have indeed built the world's biggest white elephant - it's going to be ****ing difficult to remove it again...

And that's just off the top of my head...

There's also tons of pros too, obviously.

So my preferred plan is simple: Make sure you choose the right option, and make sure you build that option as well as you possibly can to extract the maximum benefits possible! It's not rocket science...

So you haven't actually got a preferred option? Christ, you're a born politician.

[hellenmoranov]

MOBIUS - How are you going to define what the best option will be?

Until you do that your post is meaningless.

[onelovemp]

MOBIUS - How are you going to define what the best option will be?

Until you do that your post is meaningless.

I have this suspicion you're both deliberately trying to wind me up!

I could sit here and expand on something to the effect of: maximising total energy production and overall economic benefits where possible, whilst minimising cost and negative environmental and economic effects. But I'm not going to until one or the other of you decide to actually writing something more concrete about why you support the barrage other than 'Cuz I fink it's a good idea'...

I've given you all the info in the last few posts, work it out for yourself...

[HRCPda7R]

1- Sustainable long-term energy
2- Big boost to the economy at both national and local levels
3- Significant improvement to transport links between Wales and South West.
4- Potential for easing rail bottleneck at Severn Tunnel and dangling the prospect of improved high-speed rail link.
5- Improved flood prevention measures.
6- Will that do?

[Olphander]

wtf is this thread about?
speak english
your country invented the fricken language