Ships to Gaza incident
 

Since it's all so unclear right now I wouldn't come up with:

The sheer number of deaths seem to indicate an “over the top” use of force, which I would have to say is not uncommon with the IDF, but on the other hand, it also seems clear to me that this was not the all peaceful aid convoy it’s currently being depicted as in the media.

I say we wait until we know what is on board of those ships.

If weapons were on board, then they got was coming to them.

If no weapons were on board then it is time for serious sanctions.

As a side question to our in house navy experts ( http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...ilies/wink.gif ) if the ship was sailing under turkish flag, and turkey being member of nato, what should our response be if it turn out that the mission was purely humanitarian ?

There is a blockade on gaza to encourage hamas to step down from power. You clearly have no idea how hard it is to protect a country the size of New Jersey from terrorist attacks when you are surrounded on all sides by either the sea or radical muslims. This is a country fighting for its life. If you think it doesn't have the right to use extreme measures to keep its people alive, you are either a tool or an anti semite.

They were attacked you dumbass, how the hell else would 10 commandos have been wounded? This whole IHH organization is well established to have ties with terrorists.

If the ships were outside of Israeli terrirorial waters then Israel had no right to board them, hence the crew had the right to defend themselves.
One of the articles posted said a crew member grabbed the handgun from an Israelis soldier as he landed on deck, so the gunfire did not come fromm guns carried on the ship. Also note that there are no reports of Israeli casualties, which make me wonder about reports of the ship crews firing on the Israelis. Basically it's just like the Gaza invasion - numerous dead brown people and not one Israeli scratched, which leads to the logical conclusion that the brown people lacked the means to fight back.

Yet, with all those weapons they appear not to have killed one Israeli commando*. Use of only non-deadly force by these evil "peace activists". http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...s/neeschud.gif

* I haven't checked my facts. I don't want them to get in the way.

The hand gun was taken from an Israeli commando as he landed. Knives can come in handy on a ship, in the kitchen, for opening boxes, etc.

The IDF says they tried to board the lead ship and the people attacked the soldiers with bottles, knives, and wood bats so the soldiers responded in self defense. Honestly, given how often these pro-Palestinian groups lie and deliberately frame events like these I wouldn't be surprised that creating such a propaganda event was their goal to begin with.

If they were defending themselves with bottles, knives and crowbars, it doesn't look like they were armed to me. Just people who were attacked and defended themselves with what they had at hand.

Why would commandos invade a ship with humanitarian aid on international waters? The people on the ship were attacked, they did not launch a torpedo

QFT, Oerdin, you are in fact capable of making astute observations http://www.discussworldissues.com/im...ons/icon14.gif

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/mid...t/10195838.stm

The BBC has video of the event showing the protesters attacking the Israeli soldiers with bats, knives, and broken bottles. When you have a violent mob of 600 people attacking a few dozen naval commandos and refusing to obey lawful orders it is no wonder the commandos felt the need to defend themselves. The video literally shows crazy dumbasses attacking the Israelis with bats.

You're probably right, Azazel.

Still looks like the boarding might have been questionable to begin with. Hopefully more information will come out as to what precipitated the action and what actually occurred.

They stated their goal was to land illegally and the ship was located in Isreali's internationally recognized Exclusive Economic Zone so of course the Israeli government had to enforce it's laws. These were crazed fanatics who were deliberately trying to provoke hostilities. I have absolutely no pity for these people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters

What I don't understand is why Israel doesn't prepare better for such situations, esp. if they expected it to be a "provocation" as one politician said. Why not use non-lethal force, taser, rubber-bullets? Whatever one thinks about the guys onboard those ships, this is another PR desaster for Israel. It makes any political support for Israel more difficult, which could be what Hamas etc wanted.

This.

When Somalis board boats in international waters we call it "piracy".

Cite? Under what authority were they acting?

See my following post.

Under what authority did Israel act under in international waters?

I consider myself NOT a supporter of Israel but the commandos acted appropriately given the circumstances.

It's called military discretion.

Like I said, the decision to board was questionable though.