[abouthotels]

Since when does having something in your charter (or not having it) dictate whether or not it is a goal? Let me give you an example of a charter:

THE NORTH KOREAN CONSTITUTION (excerpt)

Non-sequiturs aside, what evidence do you have that these are in fact their goals. You are saying that their goal is to hire teachers that can't be hired elsewhere. That's a pretty bold statement. So I assumed that you must have some evidence to back it up.

[sportbos]

Why are you holding teachers to a standard of social accountability that you would not ask for in anyone else?

"How dare those uppity teachers band together to secure an income. They should teach for the love of it alone!"

I don't. Why are you? I don't think anyone should be allowed to band together and create a labor monopoly. I don't think unions should be legal, period. Teacher's unions are uniquely damaging however as governments can't just go out of business the way corporations can.

Don't delude yourself into believing that this is about removing bad teachers. Nothing in the proposals is doing anything to improve education. It's just trying to kill unions as if that a magic fix. It's the same as TMM's belief that giving more authority to state governments will magically fix all financial problems.

Making it possible for the government to make pay cuts may not be entirely about removing bad teachers. But the idea that people should never have to face a pay cut and never have to be fired and never have to have their pension benefits reduced is insane. Completely insane. And while it won't fix everything, it certainly is a start.

And its purpose is twofold: I'm sure Walker and the other Republicans would agree with Michelle Rhee's belief that teacher unions and the policies they support are a barrier to improving schools.

It's illegal but it's happening.

Ronald Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers when they went on strike. I suppose I wouldn't mind if Walker did something similar.

Non-sequiturs aside, what evidence do you have that these are in fact their goals. You are saying that their goal is to hire teachers that can't be hired elsewhere. That's a pretty bold statement. So I assumed that you must have some evidence to back it up.

If there are any that do not at some level believe this to be true then the best you can say is that this is what they achieve.

[Kingerix]

They're not striking, they are collectively calling in sick to work. The Superintendants are requiring teachers calling in sick to have medical excuses.

[ppaelkos]

Obama says we need more teachers in this country and we need more talented people to become teachers. I can see one easy way to encourage people to become teachers, and Walker has figured it out as well.

Reducing the benefits they receive will encourage people to become teachers?

[IteseFrusty]

Reducing the benefits they receive will encourage people to become teachers?

What is the minimum HC would be willing to accept to become a K-12 Science teacher in an inner city Milwaukee school?

Hell, what is the minimum amount any anti union person would be willing to accept for that position?

Keep in mind that there are roughly 60k teachers in Wisconsin.

[teewHettive]

Not really. I also noted in my post that raising taxes was another alternative, likely the only other "reasonable" one. If the choice is a)raising taxes, b)firing 6000 workers, or c)retaining all workers, not raising taxes, and simply forcing public sector workers to pay into their health and pension plans at a level close to the private sector and remove their ability to, through CBA, hold the state hostage, then the choice seems clear.

Raise taxes.

[hhynmtrxcp]

.

[ARKLqAZ6]

What do you think the average salary of a teacher should be? Let's start by agreeing that this should be partially determined by performance in the classroom, eh?

[RIjdrVs3]

Because public school teachers make so much money.

[crestosssa]

Also, what is the minimum a teacher should make and the max they should make.

[tousuarshatly]

Let's start by agreeing that this should be partially determined by performance in the classroom, eh?

So you really think that teachers pay should be determined by how well the students do? I can't agree to that, and never will.

[VovTortki]

So you really think that teachers pay should be determined by how well the students do? I can't agree to that, and never will.

How do you determine teacher performance if not through student performance?

[popandopulus]

I don't see a problem with changing the definitions of essential worker to provide for arbitration as a the de facto alternative to strikes.

And it's easy to see why unions don't like certain actions. They're seeking to maximize their benefit just as much as any other party in the economy. I think vouchers are a fine idea.

As for other unions in the public sector, the police unions and prison unions are by far the worst when it comes to protecting their members in the face of obvious wrong doing, and promoting expansion of their services solely for their benefit. It's hard to argue that mandates to educate children are there solely for the benefit of teachers and their union even if legislation to ensure that is funded by the union. It's not hard to argue that funding and lobbying for legislation that keeps pot illegal, mandatory minimums etc etc are mostly for the benefit of prisons and law enforcement.

The one thing that does bother me though is this idea that it is inherently cheaper to subcontract out public services to private contractors, despite that being ambiguous at best and obviously wrong at worst. Collusion between public sector administrators and private sector contractors needs to be looked at.

I don't disagree much with what you are saying here. My only argument would be with the last bit.

1) I've seen studies and arguments both ways. Meh.
2) It isn't really an issue of economics to me. For example - The government of this province owns and runs the liquor stores (monopoly). For years now they have been under pressure to privatize but always resist using the argument (among others) that these stores make big $$ and it would be foolish to sell them. By this same logic I can think of several industries the government should get into. Convenience stores, gas stations (we tried that one), drug stores... If you work for the government you should be "essential". Full stop.

[mirvokrug]

Performance over time would be a better indicator but that is tough to pin on any one individual when several teachers will have been involved.

[n2Oddw8P]

How exactly do you determine what a good teacher is without looking at student performance?

So dumb it had to be said twice.

[freeringsf]

So nobody will be teaching bad students because it's not worth it. One, you're assuming that teacher performance has nothing to do with student performance.

Two, why climb mountains? Because it's a challenge.