[Rndouglas]

So I was thinking about what true sovereignty is and also about the concept of a 'vagrant'. It occurred to me that he should still be sovereign, so how can these two concepts co-exist?

vagrancy n. moving about without a means to support oneself, without a permanent home, and relying on begging.

Until recently it was a considered a minor crime (misdemeanor) in many states. Yet Constitutionally it is evident that being poor is not a crime!

So what is going on here? Does a sovereign absolutely require a home?




At Common Law the term vagrant referred to a person who was idle, refused to work although capable of doing so, and lived on the charity of others. Until the 1970s state vagrancy statutes were used by police to charge persons who were suspected of criminal activity, but whose actions had not gone far enough to constitute a criminal attempt. Court decisions, however, have struck down vagrancy laws as unconstitutionally vague.

Traditionally, communities tended to regard vagrants with suspicion and view them either as beggars or as persons likely to commit crimes. In England vagrants were whipped, branded, conscripted into military service, or exiled to penal colonies. [NOT SOVEREIGN] In colonial America vagrancy statutes were common. A person who wandered into a town and did not find work was told to leave the community or face criminal prosecution.
Seems like such a heinous crime to assault someone and arrest their liberty for standing on land....for simply being.

[foI3fKWv]

A person who wandered into a town and did not find work was told to leave the community or face criminal prosecution.

.
Sounds about right.....a square dealing person can always find employ....if you dont remain vigilant a parasite can quickly attach to you.

[qCGfQR9T]

We have an ownership culture. If you own nothing, or have no job you don't fit in.

Being homeless means you don't have a shelter to live in that is your own. You don't have to own anything to be sovereign. Here is a definition of Sovereign:

1 a : one possessing or held to possess supreme political power or sovereignty
b : one that exercises supreme authority within a limited sphere
c : an acknowledged leader : arbiter



2: any of various gold coins of the United Kingdom

Merriam Webster

Doesn't say anything about owning anything.

So Vagrants can be Sovereigns. In English speaking countries, all they have to do is assert their inalienable rights.


Hatha

[Leczyslaw]

By who's standard is the measure of a persons vagrancy?

Traditionally, communities tended to regard vagrants with suspicion and view them either as beggars or as persons likely to commit crimes. If a person needs no work, charity or mischief to sustain themselves are they still measured as a vagrant?

Can you imagine a circumstance where a person like the one I described might exist or does your tradition prevent you from seeing a person like that as they truly are?

[denSmumbSes]

You guys are grasping for 'monarchy'.

[deermealec]

Nowadays, a vagrant gets conscripted as a prison slave.

[6ZCo3xuK]

There was a fairly good movie about vagrancy a while back, I think it was called Rambo....

[deermealec]

The key to being a successful vagrant is remaining a sovereign nomadic gypsy.

[johnuioyer]

A sovereign is a gold coin. The price of a British sovereign is not just based on the gold content alone.


There presently no coin called a vagrant. However, this is my idea of what one such coin would look like if it did exist:

[EarnestKS]

The key to being a successful vagrant is remaining a sovereign nomadic gypsy.

are you pointing at me.... LOL... well I do fit your definition for at least another 6 months.

[deermealec]

are you pointing at me.... LOL... well I do fit your definition for at least another 6 months.

You're not alone, after 3 years I start to get jumpy when I even just hear the word "taxes".

It sends my gypsy sovereignty into a spin.

[6ZCo3xuK]

A sovereign citizen has a vested interest in the well being of the community within which he/she lives. A vagrant, with no vested interest, is the introduction of an unknown variable into the social/civil and economic structure of the community. You, and the all the other members of your community, knows what it takes to live there, so how will the vagrant support him/herself? If the vagrant can't come up with a reasonable explanation as to his/her plans for maintaining their existence within the community, then it is best just to move them along....

[johnuioyer]

A sovereign citizen ...

is by definition an oxymoron. Sort of like an idiot savant.

[6ZCo3xuK]

is by definition an oxymoron. Sort of like an idiot savant.

It's only an oxymoron to idiots who labor under the delusion that they're also savant.

[johnuioyer]

It's only an oxymoron to idiots who labor under the delusion that they're also savant.

Frequently idiots don't know they are idiots.

A citizen is a subject. A sovereign is not. A sovereign citizen is a misguided putz.

[6ZCo3xuK]

Frequently idiots don't know they are idiots.

A citizen is a subject. A sovereign is not. A sovereign citizen is a misguided putz.

There you go, pretending you're a savant again.

This is what a citizen has meant and continues to mean to most Americans:

A citizen is an inhabitant of a city or town; especially: one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman (sovereign), a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state.

So tell us, which government agency are you a servant to?

[johnuioyer]

There you go, pretending you're a savant again.

I know it is hard but try to avoid ad hominem.

This is what a citizen has meant and continues to mean to most Americans:

A citizen is an inhabitant of a city or town; especially: one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman (sovereign), a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state.

There you go mixing up terms again. A civilian is a student of the law. A non-civilian might be someone who ignores the law.

A citizen in YOUR world is defined by the 14th amendment and is SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION. A sovereign is not a subject of his own jurisdiction.

So tell us, which government agency are you a servant to?

Tell us how you would use this information?

[6ZCo3xuK]

There you go mixing up terms again. A civilian is a student of the law. A non-civilian might be someone who ignores the law.

If we were living in 14th century France, I might agree with you but we don't live in 14th century France do we?

A civilian is a non-combatant or anyone not in direct service to the government/state.

A citizen in YOUR world is defined by the 14th amendment and is SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION. A sovereign is not a subject of his own jurisdiction.

Jurisdiction (from the Latin ius, iuris meaning "law" and dicere meaning "to speak") is the practical authority granted to a formally constituted legal body or to a political leader to deal with and make pronouncements on legal matters and, by implication, to administer justice within a defined area of responsibility. The term is also used to denote the geographical area or subject-matter to which such authority applies.

Even a sovereign non-citizen is subject to the law. Let me reiterate: Subject To The Law.

A sovereign citizen has a say in the content of that law.

The 14th means no more than what we allow it to mean.

[gluckmeea]

This seems off kilter. So, I come to your town looking for work and I don't find any right away and I'm classified as a vagrant? If I'm not verifiably "employed" am I some type of scum? I'm a sovereign nation unto myself, if ya want to call me a vagrant have at it, asshole.

[deermealec]

This seems off kilter. So, I come to your town looking for work and I don't find any right away and I'm classified as a vagrant? If I'm not verifiably "employed" am I some type of scum? I'm a sovereign nation unto myself, if ya want to call me a vagrant have at it, asshole.

The state of Wackenhut has a cot waiting for you at the corporate prison, vagrant.