[freevideoandoicsI]

Yeah, it's catching people who break the law.

We should all wear ankle bracelets then. What's the problem if you have nothing to hide?

[Thomaswhitee]

We should all wear ankle bracelets then. What's the problem if you have nothing to hide?

Ankle Bracelets? I think the roadmap calls for RFID chipping; for our own benifit.. to better help monitor your vital signs and to make check out at the supermarket a breeze - of course.

Precrime persecution never hurt nobody. It's only being pushed to help serve the greater good

[beethyday]

Your two points are self-defeating. You say crime will forever happen yet this will somehow doing something to curb it?

No it won't. This is just precious coming from such a defeatist nanny state nation that Britain has become.

You can stop drug dealing pretty easily which will stop most murders but most governments are not going to take the step.

I said you can not get rid of crime, just move it to somewhere else. If that's moving it from a corner the public uses to cross the street to some safehouse, that's a compromise I'd be happy with because drugs will forever be bought and sold no matter what you do and provides extra measures where crime has happened to get the identities, or tracing where they are going, providing police with assistance. For example, you're waiting at the traffic lights and get punched and your phone taken, camera operators then watch where he/she is heading and guides a nearby officer.

How would you stop drug dealing then? If you cannot even stop the drugs from being produced in Columbia and Afghanistan, you have no hope of ever stopping drugs being bought and sold illegally. I'd like to see you solve it; I'm sure your view would be worth billions to governments around the world.

We should all wear ankle bracelets then. What's the problem if you have nothing to hide? They don't need to if you have a phone registered to you

[doxinwasido]

because drugs will forever be bought and sold no matter what you do and provides extra measures where crime has happened to get the identities, or tracing where they are going, providing police with assistance.

Actually, if we give them an inch and they take a mile - as has been the process to this point; crime should be easily eraddicated all together as we will have mass surviellence tech that peers through walls and listens in no matter what the safehouse is composed of [thumbsup]

[ebookinfo]

They don't need to if you have a phone registered to you

Well ****...

[Moupponge]

I said you can not get rid of crime, just move it to somewhere else. If that's moving it from a corner the public uses to cross the street to some safehouse, that's a compromise I'd be happy with because drugs will forever be bought and sold no matter what you do and provides extra measures where crime has happened to get the identities, or tracing where they are going, providing police with assistance. For example, you're waiting at the traffic lights and get punched and your phone taken, camera operators then watch where he/she is heading and guides a nearby officer.

How would you stop drug dealing then? If you cannot even stop the drugs from being produced in Columbia and Afghanistan, you have no hope of ever stopping drugs being bought and sold illegally. I'd like to see you solve it; I'm sure your view would be worth billions to governments around the world.

Well you already kissed away most of your privacy and rights in the name of security in the UK so of course you would bend over and take something like this as well.

How to stop drug dealing then? SIMPLE. Legalize it. Sell it through government run institutions who also provides services for rehabilitation and medical care. Poof. Crime is gone.

It would take care nearly 70% of murders in Detroit.

[Qesomud]

Well you already kissed away most of your privacy and rights in the name of security in the UK so of course you would bend over and take something like this as well.

How to stop drug dealing then? SIMPLE. Legalize it. Sell it through government run institutions who also provides services for rehabilitation and medical care. Poof. Crime is gone.

It would take care nearly 70% of murders in Detroit.

But we loooove Detroit so much

[Unonounaple]

Well you already kissed away most of your privacy and rights in the name of security in the UK so of course you would bend over and take something like this as well.

What privacy and rights would they be that we've lost then?

[JJoon077]

I said you can not get rid of crime, just move it to somewhere else. If that's moving it from a corner the public uses to cross the street to some safehouse, that's a compromise I'd be happy with because drugs will forever be bought and sold no matter what you do and provides extra measures where crime has happened to get the identities, or tracing where they are going, providing police with assistance. For example, you're waiting at the traffic lights and get punched and your phone taken, camera operators then watch where he/she is heading and guides a nearby officer.

If you put cameras in the problem areas, and they just move to the corner down the street, then what? If you happened to have your house or business by that corner, then great for you, but what about the people that have to deal with them at their new spot? Do you just put up cameras at every single street corner? Back alley? Parking lot? Heck, may as well just put them up on every single telephone pole and lamp post just to be sure. Where does it end?

Do you have any idea just how big our cities & neighborhoods are? How expensive do you think that would all be, not only for the equipment, but operating costs, wages of the people who have to sit there and monitor the stuff, and maintenance?

[Grewlybreekly]

If you put cameras in the problem areas, and they just move to the corner down the street, then what? If you happened to have your house or business by that corner, then great for you, but what about the people that have to deal with them at their new spot? Do you just put up cameras at every single street corner? Back alley? Parking lot? Heck, may as well just put them up on every single telephone pole and lamp post just to be sure. Where does it end?

Do you have any idea just how big our cities & neighborhoods are? How expensive do you think that would all be, not only for the equipment, but operating costs, wages of the people who have to sit there and monitor the stuff, and maintenance?

OK fine, being a victim of crime on public streets is too costly.

I'd love for you to say that to someone who got stabbed, shot or had their possessions taken away from them with no hope of finding the culprits. Or to know that the perpetrator(s) could have been stopped by the police as they were one block of way but noone saw it happen or could guide the police towards them.

**** it, why have police on the streets? Too costly to have police on the streets and a violation of privacy. Meh, should ban CCTV in any public place, too. Too costly to have it installed in every public building. After all, the cost of dealing with the crime must be cheaper than trying to prevent it.

How to stop drug dealing then? SIMPLE. Legalize it. Sell it through government run institutions who also provides services for rehabilitation and medical care. Poof. Crime is gone. LOL. [ok]

[inve.tment]

OK fine, being a victim of crime on public streets is too costly.

I'd love for you to say that to someone who got stabbed, shot or had their possessions taken away from them with no hope of finding the culprits. Or to know that the perpetrator(s) could have been stopped by the police as they were one block of way but noone saw it happen or could guide the police towards them.

And what happens if the Police roll up and go all Rodney King on you because the Eye of Sauron turned it's evil gaze unto you by some mistake?

It also just lays the groundwork and infrastructure to be abused down the road by an ever oppressive government. But the government would never do that, right? They can do no wrong...

[pIp83Uns]

And what happens if the Police roll up and go all Rodney King on you because the Eye of Sauron turned it's evil gaze unto you by some mistake?

Because that never happens when someone gives a vague description of someone committing a crime

I see there is no real argument against surveillance just "OMG PEOPLE WATCHING ME!". Noone watching could give a **** if you like to go in Hardcore Gay Porn store on 5th Street or go and eat Tacos at 12:48 every Tuesday. However, knowing that you may be being watched may deter the opportunist thief or lead to an arrest. How you could not want justice is beyond me.

[rowneigerie]

How you could not want justice is beyond me.

Of course I want justice, but at what cost?

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin

[glasscollector]

O
LOL. [ok]

Yeah exactly, you have nothing to say because it is the only solution. Don't be such a putz.

--- Post Update ---

Of course I want justice, but at what cost?

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin

Pre-crime is not justice, it is borderline close to thought crime.

[Alulursuifold]

"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." -- John Adams

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."-- Thomas Jefferson

"We've witnessed a fire sale of American liberties at bargain basement prices, in return for the false promise of more security... The America being designed right now won't resemble the America we've been defending... The danger isn't that Big Brother may storm the castle gates. The danger is that Americans don't realize that he is already inside the castle walls." -- Wayne LaPierre

"Tolerating imperfections is the price of freedom." -- Dr. Thomas Sowell

"The people never give up their liberty but under some delusion." -- Edmund Burke

"Tyranny is always better organized than freedom." -- Charles Peguy

[Shemker394]

I see there is no real argument against surveillance just "OMG PEOPLE WATCHING ME!". Noone watching could give a **** if you like to go in Hardcore Gay Porn store on 5th Street or go and eat Tacos at 12:48 every Tuesday.

I would also like to point out that you've hardly offered any compelling argument for this Pre-Crime surveillance system. Not only do you completely avoid addressing our arguments and concerns, but you also twist our original words and dismiss us as a bunch of paranoid delusional people. It's not the idea of our actions being known to everyone because of a security system, it's the principle of giving that much power to those that already have a lot of power. Having security cameras everywhere is in itself inexcusable, but unfortunately I would say it's virtually unavoidable simply because of how technology is becoming such a large part of our lifestyle. But the idea of Pre-Crime itself is absolutely ridiculous.

Pre-crime is not justice, it is borderline close to thought crime.

Agreed, and thanks for pointing that out.

[NerbuitW]

Define pre-crime. Does the definition change over time?

[Amomiamup]

Define pre-crime. Does the definition change over time?

I believe the person you want to ask that is Tom Cruise.

[Stacypettlerr]

...or one of the Precogs.

[SantaGanstag]

Some interesting points being argued here but i think the main issue is being missed?

I live in a borough of London and i work in another borough of London, i have seen first hand how CCTV is a failure!
CCTV will be introduced on the merit it will deter criminals and gather valuable footage of crimes being committed, it will assist in the capture and prosecution of criminals who are caught.

This will firstly lead to a cut back of physical policing, you will see less patrols and policing taking place on the streets.
This in turn will lead secondly to people who are not afraid of the CCTV still committing antisocial behaviour and moving other illegal activities to more less policed areas.
This will then lead to 'no go' areas for policing that then become a hot spot for criminals.
This then leads to the **** state that London is in as all policing is then no longer proactive but reactive and so they arrive late if at all?

The CCTV will a majority of the time be proven to be unpermissible in court as the evidence was not in suitable lighting and so you couldn't see the accused clearly enough, poor weather conditions limited the veiw so the incident was only partially filmed or the 'circumstances' were incorrect for it to be submitted.

These are all factors that have blighted the British justice system over the use of CCTV.

You need policemen and women with large sticks, guns, vests, mace, pepper sprays and dogs with pointy teeth on the streets dealing with issues first hand and re-enforcing the paranoia in criminals that any moment now a cop could walk around the corner and catch them in the act!

CCTV is an epic fail on behalf of proactive and preventive policing, i have see so first hand.

For the record if your doing nothing wrong then sure you got nothing to hide, but seriously the bigger issue is what about the people who cant be arse to hide what they do and still continue to do so?