[oraltyrap]

China already has a 17% import tariff on foreign goods. They also have a 17% sales VAT. Every time I go there my friends ask me to bring loads of US goods. I get lists.

So China already has protectionism.

[JOR4qxYH]

Although I can see the truth of what you're saying here, living standards have risen overall as buying power has increased due to the very cause - outsourcing of production to lower waged countries.

My point hinges on perceptions. If people feel insecure, or worse off, then rational economic arguments may fail and be replaced, perhaps by some sort of "populist politics".

[EspanaCamsInfo]

I wouldn't worry so much If I were you, Australia has a very low population, and great mineral wealth, and agricultural wealth (for its population)

[R1king]

But our oppositions keep telling us how badly off we are

A complete summary of opposition policies:

1. Economic policy: Julia is bad
2. Refugee policy: Julia is bad
3. Social inclusion policy: Julia is bad
4. Foreign policy: Julia is bad
5. Poker machine policy: Julia is bad



And a complete summary of government policies:

1. Economic policy: Tony is bad
2. Refugee policy: Tony is bad
3. Social inclusion policy: Tony is bad
4. Foreign policy: Tony is bad
5. Poker machine policy: Tony is bad

[aaaaaaahabbbby]

Cut the salaries and you get a competitive economy again.

We're all Greek!

[nushentelve]

Incidentally, factory closures are attributable to excessive wages and ridiculous workplace conditions.

You sound like a bloke who enjoys wages and conditions far better than the wages and conditions of a factory worker.

[mosypeSom]

This is an illusion. The lower and middle classes of today has appreciably improved their financial status. It's come to the point where even people in immigration detention centres have access to the internet. Improvements in quality of life, access to technology, health and medicine mean that the gap between rich and poor is the gap between owning an 52" flat screen and a 32" flat screen. Even those at the lower end of the income scale have access to the necessities, and most of the luxuries, of everyday life.

Were you at all aware that
There are many people who skip meals because they need to conserve money, sometimes to feed the kids

Do you actually know anyone who lives in Housing Commission accomodation?
Do you actually know anyone who lives in a boarding house?
Do you live in a house with six bathrooms?

[maxtp]

There's a reason jobs go to China. It's because their wages are lower than ours, productivity notwithstanding. The reality is that we would have more manufacturing jobs if employee costs were lower. Employee costs and export costs are the major impediments to a manufacturing base in Australia.

Australian manufacturing workers are not going to quietly submit to a pay cut of 90% or thereabouts. They would be rather more likely to listen to a Marine le Pen espousing protectionism, I suggest.

[pupyississido]

-left blank

[Edifsdubs]

There's a reason jobs go to China. It's not because the Chinese beat their workers or engage in a vast criminal enterprise known as the People's Republic of China--that produces less productivity, not more. It's because their wages are lower than ours, productivity notwithstanding. The reason is the workers don't actually have a choice. All this "free market" bullshit ignores the fact that through immigration laws we've effectively built cages around huge swaths of the world population.

We really need to tear down that Statue of Liberty monstrocity. It's only a shining beacon of our hypocrisy and disregard for humanity.

[Esmeralfaf]

You guys realize that a lot of heavy industry doesn't build here because of the stringent environmental laws, OSHA regs, legal environment, and a host of non-employee related expenses, right?

Not that those are bad things, but from a corporate profit position, they make a huge difference.

[Dokescoonse]

[q]
Also, try to be polite. It goes a long way. I don't mean anything I write here as a personal attack on you. And my private life and who I know or don't doesn't have anything to do with that discussion.

My point is that an understanding and awareness of the financial challenges facing low paid workers puts the consequences, to individuals, of macro-economic policies into perspective. Seems hard to get that understanding without directly, and thus vicariously, experiencing the outlook of at least one person who is struggling.

I am also suggesting that the political reactions need to be considered.

I concede that I did advance my point in a way that was impolite. My apologies.

[avaincmolla]

Incidentally, factory closures are attributable to excessive wages and ridiculous workplace conditions. Lower wages--probably still much better in real terms than those in India--would mean a larger manufacturing sector. But the total victory of unionism is itself a self-defeating phenomenon: for its short term self-interest unions advocate high wages for unionised workers and far too stringent conditions (like demanding the right to choose whether a company can outsource its workers or not). Having obtained that result they bewail the fact that these very manufacturers find higher profits overseas. The result is that the union loses members, jobs are lost, and the economy suffers.

While this is an excellent talking point, it's wrong. Completely false.

If Ipads were made in the US and workers got $30+ dollars an hour instead of less than a dollar an hour, labor costs would only rise $100 for Apple. If sold at current prices, their profit margin would shrink from 54% to 39%.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...acturing-jobs/

So yeah... you are wrong... wrong wrong wrong
wrongity wrong wrong... Wrongy McWrongers