UPDATE2: My committee is formed and I am one meeting away from a final decision. PROBLEM: I took USGA's advice and did a sample "Stroke Allowcation By Hole". Took two groups of golfers. Group A was 0-5 handicappers and Group B was 15 and above. Using 300 scores (150 in each group) the stroke differential by hole shows the Par 5's as the lowest 4 handicap holes and the 4 par 3's as the high handicap holes. The stroke differential method seemed to work good on the Par 4 holes. Eg - Our #3 hole is a short par 5 with a little dogleg before the hole. Very little trouble. I consider this one of the easiest holes on the course and through scoring average is the second easiest hole on the course. Using the "Stroke Allowcation By Hole" method it becomes the #1 Handicap Hole!

I think the problem with our data is that a majority of our "Group B" players are older (65+) and are short hitters, making for a high stroke differential on long holes. Vice Versa on the Par 3's. Our #17 is probably the second toughest hole on the course...A 190 yard par 3 with water down the right side and thick rough down the left side and a long narrow green, but with stroke differential it comes in at #16!

The committee is going to have some tough decisions to make based on the data, especially when it comes to the Par 5's and the Par 3's. I will post a final update after our committee meeting in the next couple of weeks.

Very interesting read. Now I know what the handicap on holes means. I always thought it was difficulty, but not so!

TTL looking forward to seeing how it goes.

Why dont you call the USGA and have the course sloped and rated?

i think a little bit of common sense is needed aswell.at my home course according to data for the whole year the hardest hole is the 9th/18th(9 hole course.).now the reason for this is because of the average score over par on this hole is greater than the rest but the reason for that is.........most players at the club don't hit it very long and this hole is a 515yrd par 5 whcih is very tight.most of the guys make high scores on this hole but for me it is very easy,i can get there in 2 so to make this hole stroke index 1 would be crazy..........

but the actual stroke index 1 on the course is a right pain in the ass.....it's proper hard and even though according to the stats it's not the hardest,it is in my opinion.this hole actually suits the high handicap player because they tend to hit a left to right shot and this hole requires that.i stand up and try and play a fade and if i double cross it i'm in deep trouble.i can end up making silly scores on this hole which i have done.....8 etc.

i think you need to get the commitee together and along with all the data hea dout on the course and have a walk on each hole and really consider all the difficulties etc that would effect low handicap players and high handicap players and so on.and see what you come up with.

Skimmer!! hehe

Thainer...THe course is sloped and rated by USGA...Unfortunately, that has nothing to do with what we are doing here. USGA does not get involved in individual hole by hole handicapping. That is done by local course committee. (skimmer indeed)

wull...that is exactly what we are running into. As a committee we are going to sit down, hash over the data and decide.

Hole Handicap Input...
 

For those with knowledge about handicapping a course: Our course was built approximately 10 years ago. A committee set up the hole by hole handicaps and after 10 years we realize they aren't correct. Some holes are way off. (eg. - our hole #3 is the #2 handicap hole on the course...with my data it is the #17 handicap hole!)

I have taken it upon myself to form a committee to reset the hole by hole handicaps. I have taken 4 years of data (random scores by hole from scorecards) and compiled new hole by hole handicaps based on those scores.

I assigned a point value for Birdies, Pars, Bogeys and others coming up with a total score for each hole. The higher the score on the hole, the higher that hole is in the handicap line up.

Here's the problem: Our #1 - #6 Handicap holes are all on the back nine using the new system. Does anyone see this as an issue? Thoughts? Help me out here. Any input is appreciated.

Are the scorecards ALL random or did you use equal amounts of good players, average players, and bad players? I always thought you needed to mix in equal amounts of all levels of golfers to help calculate the handicaps. If not, the handicaps would only be accurate for one range of players.

Look, you have put in 4 years of work to get this done. I can't say having the 6 toughest on the back is wrong but it seems a little weird. That would mean that the front is way easier and people's rounds would be skewed based on the new hdcp'd holes. I do believe that some courses have it wrong but usually not all the holes.
Let me ask you this, has you #1 -6 holes changed in the reshuffle. What made the new 1-6 tougher than the old? Was each set of tees played by an A-D player to give you a good mix of scores. Was each set of tees played by these different sets of golfers?
it seems pretty drastic that you new #17 used to your old #2. From the second hardest to the second easiest. Unless you have had some serious course reconstruction how did the hole loose its strength. What is the name of the course?

Has your course been officially rated? Not sure I understand what you are doing with this committee? The USGA is very specific as to how this process takes place. Ratings are normally done by the state golf associations. To use a official handicap system like GHIN, this has to be done by a rating team.

Two good reads;


http://www.usga.org/news/2011/March/...ing,-Part-One/

http://www.usga.org/NewsSF.aspx?id=2147496885

If I understand, you are saying the six hardest holes from your sampling is on the back?

The hardest hole (highest stroke average for everyone that plays it) is not necessarily the number one handicap hole. The low number handicap holes are the holes that are more difficult for a bogie golfer in comparison to a scratch golfer. The hardest hole may have a higher handicap number just because it is difficult for both scratch golfers and bogie golfers. At my home course, the hardest hole is the number 4 handicap hole. And our 6 hardest holes are on the back nine.

The USGA determines the number one handicap hole by finding a difference between what a scratch golf is expected to score and what a bogie golfer is expected to score, then the hole with the highest differential is the number one handicap hole (if it is on the front.) If it is on the back it may be the number 2 handicap hole. Because most courses actually have the holes ranked among each nine holes then alternate handicap numbers between front and back. The number one handicap hole will probably be on the front and 2 on the back, 3 on the front, 4 on the back and so on. It is not all that unusual for several of the harder holes to be on the same side.

Great info. so far guys. To answer some questions...When the orginal handicapping was done there was no water on the course. Now there is water on 7 holes. The state golf association has told us it is up to us.

In the sample data all levels of play were used from all 4 sets of tees. And all levels of handicaps were used.

When the course was built a committee of guys used very little data to come up with the handicaps. And there was virtually no water on the course to start with. The course is Cross Roads Golf Course in Carrington, ND. Quite simply, what made the data come up different now was the number of rounds used. (and the water)

Lefty...You shed new light on the subject that I was hoping was out there. The original committee alternated holes front to back, but my understanding is that this isn't mandatory. (they did this based on there early score findings) I am going to do a little more work using what you say the USGA does. The problem with this method is that with the scoring data only, the top 6 most difficult holes are on the back. Doing what you are saying would make the 7th most difficult hole the #1 handicap hole just because it is on the front correct?

Hoosier...SLope and Course Rating are/were done by USGA but individual handicapping of holes wasn't done by USGA, it was done by committee. Does the individual hole handicap have anything to do with GHIN? My individual GHIN handicap is figured off the course rating and slope, not off individual hole handicaps correct? How does the individual hole handicap affect course rating or slope?

Tadashi...How is this for skewed...(unusal for me, but true) My last 4 rounds, I am 4 over total on the front nine and 27 over on the back nine!...Averaging a 79...

No I don't think the individual hole handicap has anything to do with GHIN. I know my home course, where I work part time, has been rated three times since it opened in 1959 and it was always done by a rating group set up by the Indiana Golf Association. They also handled the handicapping of holes. There will always be some level of disagreement among the membership on hole handicaps (everyone has an opinion), so we never wanted to be involved in this. If you can do it by committee at your course, then I would say you are doing good.

To answer your original question, our course has five of the top nine handicap holes on the back nine.

Can anyone tell me for certain how this should be done? Lefty are you sure what you are saying for individual hole handicaps applies? The more I think about the methodology you speak of, the more confused I get. I can see how you MIGHT be able to come up with #1 handicap using this method, but what about the 14 holes where there is a one stroke differential?

Also, does anyone know if you have to alternate handicap holes front to back? I know many courses do, but does it have to be that way?

Ok...In my limited research here's what I've learned so far:

*USGA and the Local Golf Association usually don't get involved in the individual handicapping of holes. This is normally done by a course committee.

*The emphasis for handicapping a hole should be the differential between what a scratch golfer would score on a hole and what a bogey golfer would score on a hole. (Lefty appears to be spot on here)

*Nobody can tell me if committee should/or has to alternate those holes front to back.

If I can find the answer to #3, I am going to start the committee process, even if it takes a call to the USGA to re-handicap our holes.

I'm having no luck right now getting on the USGA website for some reason, but here is another link I had saved;

http://www.carolinasgolf.org/handica...allocation.htm

If you google "golf course hole allocation" you get many returns also.

From the "Pope of Slope"; http://www.popeofslope.com/guideline...ngstrokes.html

I've always found it weird how one nine has odd numbered handicaps and the other has the even numbered handicaped holes.

The USGA suggests (but does not require) that you allocate the first stroke to a hole on the front nine and the second stroke to a hole on the back nine. Go back and forth until you have done all 18 holes. It’s done this way to equalize the number of shots a player gets on each nine.