[Raj_Copi_Jin]

I bring this topic up as I want to know if you guys play with people who think they are better than they really are. I will list my clubs and what distance I typically use them in as a reference point. The gaps are affected by lie, uphill, downhill and overall conditions for the day.

Driver 250+
3 wood 215 - 250
2H 190-215
3H 180-190
4H 170-180
5I 160-170
6I 150-160
7I 130-150
8I 120 -135
9I 110 - 125
PW 80 - 110
AW 50 - 80
SW 70 and in

I own a sky caddie (so I know how far I hit each club) and these distances listed are the gaps I will play a certain club and I play with golfers who could become alot better trying to play distances that are more realistic. Several times in a round I'll see a guy have 130 uphill to the green on a sidehill lie trying to smash a PW to the green in hopes he hits it pin high. The odds of pulling off that shot are probably 1 in 10 and yet they do it round after round. Do any of you lower your scores by being humble on what club you hit? By looking at my bag you can see the short irons are where I try to hit more accurate shots by taking more club and hitting it straighter.

[mireOpekrhype]

We got a chance to speak to David Leadbetter in the year and he gave me one piece of advice that every amateur should remember. Amateurs leave EVERYTHING short. Tee shots, approach shots, chips, pitches, putts, etc...

Whether it is ego or not, I think a lot of it has to do with people really not knowing their distances. Or in the ego case, not wanting to admit to themselves what their real distances are.

[AngelinaLip]

Jackie Burke once said something like this, "Take whatever club you would bet $1000 you can hit over the green and use it."

Probably pretty solid advice.

[MadMark]

I have always been one to know my carry distances on all my full shots. The roll afterwards was subject to too many variables I could not control. Does not mean I do not factor in any of those variables, I do. I will either add, or subtract a club based on the situation. What ever full shot I am facing, for me it always starts with my carry yardage.

[standaman]

I rarely try to hit an iron hard. Watch the pros. Rarely do they jump all over an iron shot. I typically take one more club than I need to reach the target and swing smooth. Not that I can't hit the ball hard when I want to, it's just not necessary.

I do, however, pretty much wail away with my driver and 3w. You have to get it as far down the fairway as possible off the tee in my opinion. The shorter the club for approach shots, the lower the score.

I also would almost always rather be a little short than over a green. At least where I play.

Kevin

[Twelearly]

Solid advice on hitting an extra club...I think the only time I really hit anything over the green is when I am skulling a wedge.

[Dodoerabe]

There are plenty of golfers who should use more club. Ego might have some to do with it, but just a general lack of knowledge on how far they hit each club is probably the bigger factor. I keep seeing people state how players always come up short. Most of the time that is a smart play due to the course design. Driving home I went through 5-6 courses in my head and could only come up with a handful of holes where it would be okay to over the green. Most greens are designed (at least the ones I have played) sloping back to front. Coming up short is the smart play. You definitely don't want to be long. Now is that the thought process of most golfers? No. They don't know the difference and should probably take more club anyway. But what is the one thing you always here on the TV broadcasts, "you don't want to be behind the hole here" always seems to come up.

Personally, just about every shot selection for me is guarding against going long. If I don't want to be behind the hole (which is often the case) and have two club choices, I am going to choose the shorter one. There are many instances where I would rather come up 10 yards short with the 8-iron if I don't hit it good, than be 5 yards long with a 7-iron if I maybe hit it too good. Not because my ego wants to hit an 8 instead of a 7, but because if I miss, I want to miss short. I know there is now way the 8 is going long. I know how far I hit each club and can hit 2 clubs to any yardage. There are a few yardages I can pick between 3 clubs. I think instead of club selection people should think about shot selection. It is much more effective to be able to play different shots than to just hit a club to a yardage.

[trilochana.nejman]

Golf is a game of honesty, but not so much in regard to what we tell other people but rather what we tell ourselves. If someone wants to brag to their friends and exaggerate the truth about how far they can hit a six iron that's one thing. But if they're exaggerating to themselves, that can only lead to disappointment.

I have kept track of my carry yardages for as along as I can remember and I have marched off hundreds of shag bag's worth of shots to verify them and that comes in very handy out on the course.

I think that there is far too much emphasis on distance overall and those who fall prey to the ego trap of "How far?" don't have their eye on the prize as much as on the guy in the next stall at the driving range. I honestly don't care how far anyone else hits any club. All I care about is how far I hit MY clubs.

I think one of the things that perhaps has confused people in the past is not knowing where they are on the course. Just having a distance to the center of a green is really not enough if your goals are to really play this game on as high a level as you can. I think that the advent of GPS has helped a great deal in that regard because I now not only know the "Center" distance to a green, but also the "Front" and "Back" distances and that alone has helped me and others immensely.

I personally believe that the most important distance on the course is the distance to the front of the green. Knowing what I need to do to carry hazards and rough and to get the ball onto the putting surface is critical. Combining that number with the middle and back distances as well as pin locations presents options that even I never knew were available before (and I've made yardage books for a number of courses I've played).

As StLCardsFan pointed out, most greens do indeed tilt towards the fairway and I always try to plan a shot so that I'll have an uphill putt once I get there. So knowing the front and middle distances (assuming the pin is middle) gives me a minimum and maximum distance needed and I can plan accordingly.

Of course that planning has to involve an honest assessment of how I hit each club. I have found over the years (as I'm sure many others have) that I don't always hit the ball the same distance from day to day or week to week. If I'm practicing and/or playing a lot, then those numbers are pretty steady. But if I lay off the practice routine and just play once a week or so, those numbers can fluctuate quite a bit.
I think that Jack Nicklaus' advice is quite good in that he first sees how he's hitting the ball that day, and then decides on a plan of action based upon what he sees. When I'm on the range before a round, I'll watch for my overall ball flight, my directional tendencies and my distances. My "stock" 150 yard club is my 8-iron (154 actually), but if before a round I am struggling to reach that distance with that club, I will mentally "drop a club" across the board so that when I'm faced with 150 or so out on the course, I'll have a 7-iron in my hand instead of trying to force the 8. On the other hand, if I seem to be reaching the 150 target on the range with what feels like a half-swing 8-iron, then I'll set out to play in "normal" mode knowing that if I need to squeeze a few extra yards from a club, I probably can -- that day.

"Career" shots or distances are fine for conversation but should never be used to determine average distances. I'm sure there are many people out there who may have once hit their 5-iron over 200 yards who have convinced themselves that that's "the distance they hit a 5-iron". I've also seen people reach a 150 yard par 3 with a Pitching Wedge, but judging by how far back in their stance they had their ball and the "way-past-parallel"/Happy Gilmore swing they used, I'm almost positive that their PW really isn't their "150 Club" - no matter how much they want me to believe it is.

Be honest with yourself!

A bag of golf clubs is no different than a box of wrenches. When a 1/2-inch wrench is needed, no one grabs a 7/16" and tries to "go for it". So why , if a shot calls for what one knows should be a 7-iron, would one reach for a 9-iron? Use the right tool for the job and forget about ego. In the end, you'll find it far more satisfying to brag about your score than how far you hit a single club while shooting that score.


-JP

[HaroldMY]

I look at the distance & pick which club I know will get me there, of course as JP mentioned it also depends on how the rd is going & whether or not i'm striking the ball well that day. For example my tyical 8 iron shot is right around 140 yds or so. last week I was playing a rd where everything was clicking & it seemed I was hitting the ball a little better. Had 149 yds to 1 green & decided to try the 8 just to see if I could make it, sure enough it ended up being a good shot.

Doesn't mean everytime I will use an 8 for that distance, more often than not it would be a soft 7.

[duawLauff]

Unfortunately I've always been extremely realistic about my distances. If anything I over club too much.

[trilochana.nejman]

Unfortunately I've always been extremely realistic about my distances. If anything I over club too much.

Nothing wrong with that.

In fact, Jack Nicklaus once said that if you're going to miss a green, it's better to miss it long than short because on most courses there's a lot less trouble behind a green than in front of one.


-JP

[LeslieMoran]

Nothing wrong with that.

In fact, Jack Nicklaus once said that if you're going to miss a green, it's better to miss it long than short because on most courses there's a lot less trouble behind a green than in front of one.


-JP

Really? Maybe that used to be true but I don't see that being true on most of the golf courses I play. In fact there is usually a ton of trouble long, I would much rather be just off the front edge and chipping uphill than down the back trying to lob it up out of the woods or up a steep slope or worse losing it in a creek or other hazard behind the hole. A large percentage of the greens that I see slope down towards the front edge so you want uphill chips and putts both when possible. I almost never want to go over. Relying on my GPS for yardage to the front edge I play whatever club will get me just over that front edge of the green a lot of the time and always play it that way if I don't know exactly where the pins are. The only time I club past the middle of the green is if there is obvious trouble in front that I want to avoid or I know exactly where the pin is and I am going for it.

[duawLauff]

If there is a lot of trouble left, right and long, and depending on how I am hitting the ball that day, I may lay up just short of the green and allow my short-game to do its thing.

In addition, a lot of par fives I play get really narrow up by the green, and if you look back from the green you can see how hazardous it can be to go for the green in two.

I'm am now at the point where I try to keep the big number off the card, (though in some ways it doesn't matter because for GHIN purposes the highest I can score on any given hole is a 7).

[trilochana.nejman]

Really? Maybe that used to be true but I don't see that being true on most of the golf courses I play. In fact there is usually a ton of trouble long, I would much rather be just off the front edge and chipping uphill than down the back trying to lob it up out of the woods or up a steep slope or worse losing it in a creek or other hazard behind the hole. A large percentage of the greens that I see slope down towards the front edge so you want uphill chips and putts both when possible. I almost never want to go over. Relying on my GPS for yardage to the front edge I play whatever club will get me just over that front edge of the green a lot of the time and always play it that way if I don't know exactly where the pins are. The only time I club past the middle of the green is if there is obvious trouble in front that I want to avoid or I know exactly where the pin is and I am going for it.

First of all, when I'm talking about missing a green, I'm talking about by ten yards or less.

Secondly, I don't know what kinds of courses you play, but of all the courses I've played over the last forty years here in New York as well as those I've played in Texas and Florida, I'd say that perhaps 30% of the holes have trouble beyond the greens. That of course might vary a bit when comparing one specific course to another, but on average, I'd say I'm pretty close on that estimate.

Also, by "trouble" I'm not referring to steep slopes, rough, or having to chip or pitch over a cart path or something like that. By trouble, I mean bunkers, water or wooded areas - places where it may cost you a stroke or more if you end up there.


-JP

[connandoilee]

I bring this topic up as I want to know if you guys play with people who think they are better than they really are. I will list my clubs and what distance I typically use them in as a reference point. The gaps are affected by lie, uphill, downhill and overall conditions for the day.

Driver 250+
3 wood 215 - 250
2H 190-215
3H 180-190
4H 170-180
5I 160-170
6I 150-160
7I 130-150
8I 120 -135
9I 110 - 125
PW 80 - 110
AW 50 - 80
SW 70 and in

I own a sky caddie (so I know how far I hit each club) and these distances listed are the gaps I will play a certain club and I play with golfers who could become alot better trying to play distances that are more realistic. Several times in a round I'll see a guy have 130 uphill to the green on a sidehill lie trying to smash a PW to the green in hopes he hits it pin high. The odds of pulling off that shot are probably 1 in 10 and yet they do it round after round. Do any of you lower your scores by being humble on what club you hit? By looking at my bag you can see the short irons are where I try to hit more accurate shots by taking more club and hitting it straighter.

My distances are similar to yours. Although I live at a higher elevation, I'm also nearly twice your age, so the that difference brings close. I agree with your premise that most male players can't honestly admit that they don't hit a SW 100 yards. Call it ego, testosterone, peer pressure, but I'm almost always hitting at least on iron longer than most of my buddies on any given yardage.

The par 3 17th hole on my home course was just playing 135 to a middle right pin yesterday, slightly downhill but into a 10-15 mph breeze. All 3 of my playing companions went one club up from their normal club to account for the wind (none of them used longer than an 8I) and they all landed short of the green, as they normally do. I clubbed up 2+ clubs, punched a 6I (6I is normally my 160 club) and was just past hole high, about 15 feet left and near the geometric center of the green. When I showed them what club I hit, all they could do was look amazed and say "You hit a 6I 135???"

I don't know if it is ego or just bad judgment, but 2 of the 3 guys I played with yesterday are almost always short on that hole... you would think that they'd figure it out some day.

[standaman]

First of all, when I'm talking about missing a green, I'm talking about by ten yards or less.

Secondly, I don't know what kinds of courses you play, but of all the courses I've played over the last forty years here in New York as well as those I've played in Texas and Florida, I'd say that perhaps 30% of the holes have trouble beyond the greens. That of course might vary a bit when comparing one specific course to another, but on average, I'd say I'm pretty close on that estimate.

Also, by "trouble" I'm not referring to steep slopes, rough, or having to chip or pitch over a cart path or something like that. By trouble, I mean bunkers, water or wooded areas - places where it may cost you a stroke or more if you end up there.


-JP

Long rough is not trouble? Having to chip out of long rough from behind a green into a green that slopes back to front will most certainly cost all but highly skilled golfers at a least a stroke. While bunkers in front of greens may be more common, it seems to me that there is most always an area of fairway open to the green in front. Leaving a ball just short of a green on the short grass leaves easier up and down possibilities than chipping from behind the green in most cases. At least where I play.

Just short of a green in the short grass=Better chance at up and down par.

Kevin

[trilochana.nejman]

Long rough is not trouble? Having to chip out of long rough from behind a green into a green that slopes back to front will most certainly cost all but highly skilled golfers at a least a stroke. While bunkers in front of greens may be more common, it seems to me that there is most always an area of fairway open to the green in front. Leaving a ball just short of a green on the short grass leaves easier up and down possibilities than chipping from behind the green in most cases. At least where I play.

Just short of a green in the short grass=Better chance at up and down par.

Kevin

To each his own I guess but I've never considered rough (long or otherwise) as "trouble". An inconvenience? Yes. But not trouble in the same sense as a water hazard or being stuck under a bush or stymied by a group of trees.

I also don't think of bunkers as trouble either in most cases, but given the choice between having to chip (and I emphasize chip) from a greenside bunker or chip from tall grass, I'd still prefer the grass.



But as I say, to each his own.


-JP

[connandoilee]

Long rough is not trouble? Having to chip out of long rough from behind a green into a green that slopes back to front will most certainly cost all but highly skilled golfers at a least a stroke. While bunkers in front of greens may be more common, it seems to me that there is most always an area of fairway open to the green in front. Leaving a ball just short of a green on the short grass leaves easier up and down possibilities than chipping from behind the green in most cases. At least where I play.

Just short of a green in the short grass=Better chance at up and down par.

Kevin

This is true of most of the courses I play. While there may be a bunker or short rough in front of the green, it's still easier to play to an upsloping green from in front than it is to a downslope from behind. And many of the greens on my home course are framed by trees around the back... sometimes deciduous, other times impenetrable spruce trees. Get into any of those spruces and you are dead meat. Even the less punitive trees will usually require a more imaginative pitch than the normal shot, something that most players don't do well anyway. Then add in the slope from back to front and even holding the green with a normal shot will be a challenge.

I'm a believer in doing as JP said and evaluating all of the factors before selecting a club or a shot. Too many players look at nothing but the distance, or they may add some wind or elevation into the calculation, but leave out such critical factors as green slopes, hole location (front, back left, right), and any trees or bushes near the green. They see a bunker, play away from it and leave the ball dead behind a tree on the other side. I'd rather be in the bunker.

[PlanTaleks]

A bag of golf clubs is no different than a box of wrenches. When a 1/2-inch wrench is needed, no one grabs a 7/16" and tries to "go for it". So why , if a shot calls for what one knows should be a 7-iron, would one reach for a 9-iron?

-JP

Mine are quit different! Nuts and bolts don't care about wind and terrain and uphill or down. sometimes you find yourself between clubs with 10 knots of wind in your face and you have a couple of choices. Either one can be right or wrong depending on how well you make the shot. Most amats just don't know because they haven't spent there entire life working on it like the pros. When I'm unsure like if I'm 160 away and there's wind and let's say its uphill...do I go 2 clubs up or 1? I look in my bag and I have 2 choices but wait...I hit one better than the other! Usually the shorter one. I go for short because if all goes well I will no exactly what I need for the next shot to the pin and if I hit a stinger, which I do a lot sometimes...it's all good. I'm long but not too much. Ha!

[PlanTaleks]

As for putts I say never leave one short. Practice that.