More conversions! - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**UvjqTVVC** · 10-06-2006, 04:46 PM

I was sick to read this. Sonya Gandhi's plans are working!

UP: 350 Hindus convert to Christianity

UNI | October 05, 2006 | 01:04 IST

About 350 Hindus of the district adopted Christianity at a conversion ceremony held in Baksha area in Jaunpur.Official sources on Wednesday said the 350 Hindus belonged to Agraura, Sonwar, Saduddinpur, Dhaniamau, Uttarpatti and Rari villages of Baksha.
The conversion ceremony took place on Tuesday at Belhara village, where Father Rajendra Chauhan read out the gospel to them.
He also gave each of the neo-convertees a locket of Jesus Christ.
Meanwhile, Angad Singh -- the husband of Belhara gram pradhan Tulsa -- alleged the poor Hindus were forcibly converted by the Christian missionaries.
He has submitted a compliant at the Baksha police station against the missionaries involved in the ''forced" conversions.
However, an FIR is yet to be registered.
Since the last four years, Christian missionaries have been active in the block, encouraging poor villagers to adopt Christianity.

**shanice** · 10-06-2006, 05:27 PM

Dear Friends,

This will continue to happen as long as we do not accept and treat our downtrodden brethren better. It is not money alone. It is more than that.

Pranams,
KRS

**Dapnoinaacale** · 10-07-2006, 12:38 AM

Dear KRS:
You are absolutely right; this casteism is a cancer in the Hindu society and we cannot complain about the conversions (forced or not) until we start treating these people as fellow Hindus and treat them well.
The politicians (MK) are foolishly playing with fire - they are only interested in pandering to christians and muslims so keep the vote bank; they are not looking ahead as to what could happen to India.
In the meantime, sadly, the christianization of India continues.

**Encannavalf** · 10-07-2006, 03:21 AM

Dear Friends,

This will continue to happen as long as we do not accept and treat our downtrodden brethren better. It is not money alone. It is more than that.

Pranams,
KRS

It is not because of the treatment meted out to the downtrodden in Hindu society.The lot of the Dalits is worse in CHRISTIANITY. Please read the book entitled "CHRISTHAVAMUM SAATHIYUM" (CHRISTIANITY & CASTE) written by a communist & dedicated to veteran CPI leader NALLAKKANNU. The book has been written impartially & dispassionately. It describes how uppercaste Vellala Christians made life hell for NADAR & HARIJAN Christians in different parts of T.N. The situation has not improved even now. Recently there was a programme on WIN TV on how Telugu-speaking Reddy Christians are harassing Tamil Harijan Christians near Madhuranthakam. The book "CHRISTHAVAMUM SAATHIYUM" has been published by "KAALACHUVADU PATHIPPAGAM", NAGARKOVIL, Kanyakumari Dt. Nowadays Dalits are not attracted to Christianity. THEY PREFER ISLAM BECAUSE CASTEISM & UNTOUCHABILITY ARE LESS IN ISLAM THAN IN CHRISTIANITY. In
fact casteism and untouchability are worst in Christianity. It is because of billions of dollars pumped into India by the EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS OF U.S.A. WITH THE ACTIVE CONNIVANCE OF GEORGE W. BUSH (WHO HIMSELF IS A "BORN AGAIN" EVANGELIST) that Dalits & non-Dalits are attracted towards Christianity.There are TWO 24 HOUR CHRISTIAN PROPAGANDA CHANNELS IN TAMIL ALONE, NAMELY "ANGEL TV" & "BLESSING TV" run by two Tamil evangelists. Where did they get the money from ? It requires crores of rupees for hiring a transponder on a satellite & at least Rs.TEN LAKHS every day for maintaining the Channel. Where did these Indian "evangelists" get the money from? Moreover, they do not have any advertisement income.
So, if people are embracing Christianity TODAY, it is not because of untouchability, since untouchability is worse in Christianity. Dalits who want to escape from untouchability & casteism, CONVERT TO ISLAM & NOT TO CHRISTIANITY.

**Feelundseenna** · 10-13-2006, 02:49 AM

You should watch the televisions here in the morning.

One ministry after another preaching Christianity for close to 2-3 hrs in like 3 diff tv channels.

those who do convert are simply falling into false promises and trap.

the moment they convert, they leave behind all their previous friends and relatives.

so their only "friend" is the church.

once they realize what they have got into, they cannot go out because they dont have anyone to fall back on apart from the church which will duly ban them.

so for fear of being alienated all those who converted stay converted evn though deep down they regret it every single moment.

**slimsex** · 10-13-2006, 06:13 AM

In a lighter vein, i often wonder about the 'confused state of mind' of such converts.

Venkatesan becomes John Venkatesan & Srinivasan becomes Stephen Srinivasan. If they have decided to 'convert' pray why they want to carry the baggage of Venkatesan & Srinivasan....

Also a clever strategy employed by these evangelists is to use such JV's & SS's to drive home the message further.

**DoctorNelsonOnten** · 05-10-2007, 06:53 AM

All the points are heard from hindus only.One of my friend in Rajapalayam told me that people got converted for the sake of 250/-.In a village near chengalpattu some 100 families of hindus got converted getting 10000/- and few people become 'FATHERS' and now they started converting people. I was told by one christian friend who is a moderate that if we show some organization about the list of convertees accordingly money will be pocketed.
For the poor people (here mostly dalits) they dont find difference between Krishna and Christ initially. Only after a few years they are mesmerised.Many nadars even after conversion they were mingling and calling with old relationship with hindu nadars but in due course the difference brewed and now there started fights.Everywhere dalits are treated as dalits and uppercaste dont treat them same. Only in Hinduism slowly the situation has changed.Even in muslims Pathans,Khans cant move freely with dalit converts.
Till money is allowed to flow from foreign countries to charities these conversion will take place in large scale.And the media are supportive of such conversion so we have to fight a big battle if we need to stop conversion.

**lionsiy** · 05-10-2007, 06:22 PM

Folks,

Conversions are not new to India. But what is alarming is that the conversions are no more based on an individual's choice of a religion - which should be respected, while understanding that a person's birth religion has everything that a person requires, in terms of cultural, philosophical and life support.

Nowadays, conversions have become a 'business' because of the foreign money thrown for it, to 'harvest the hapless souls'. This plays right in to the vote bank politics also.

But my only question is this - if our religion takes care of EVERYONE in it's fold, will there be any conversions? Who is responsible for this? Why do we have folks in Hinduism, who would convert on the basis of receiving money? Again, who is responsible for this state of affairs and who should resolve this?

Just simple questions we all should be asking ourselves, in my humble opinion.

Pranams,
KRS

**Gaiaakgyyyg** · 05-15-2007, 03:51 PM

It's very heart wrenching to know that many hindus are being converted to christianity.Embracing a religion is no fault but accepting a religion out of another's compulsion is something preposterous.Sadly,people,in need of money are converted to the religion .Is this what is called religion?Donating money and other things as such to people and mesmerising them?God,my blood boils with anger!How can people stoop to such low levels?I ain't blaming the chrsitians alone for this?What the hell makes people convert to other religions for the nedd of sheer money?

I'd say converting to other religions has increased coz of materialism and nothing else.People have become self centered and materialistic,of late and the least they care about,is religion.

I'm not complaining but this very stuff happens in my college too.Many hostel girls(christians) are mesmerising others,if i may say,and forcibly convert them.One of my classmates is now a a very "devout" christian and inspite of her mother telling her to stop doing something stupid like this,she says she'd convert sometime later and wouldnt listen to anybody.What can possibly go wrong with thses people?I dont blame the christians but i'd rather praise them!Where's the self control for these people??!!!

I'd strongly recommend that people read about our culture and the significance of our religion in the school level.But demons(our politicianjs) wont do that.They's rather we read quran and the holy bbible!Whoa!They intervene in religious issues when they arent a wee bit interested in religion and brand themseldves as "thi ka " activists!How convenient??!!!

Every body must be aware of our cultural ethics and must fast atleast during Ekadasi s.Only if that happens will we not become a minority,at the rate the conversion level goes.

**BodeOmissemia** · 05-23-2007, 08:56 AM

SILVERFOX what is this “conversions” to do with Sonia Gandhi ?
"Abdul katharukkum ammavasikum enna sammantham"

Mr.Chanakya comment is close to reality. To my knowledge many village in Tamilnadu, lot of old people convert to Christianity to avail the facility in “homes for old” provided by Christian community and lot of poor convert to get some money and job in Christian missionary. And Dalit leader do this mass conversion for political stunt.

Also people loose the SC/ST status when they convert to Christian, so this is never brought officially, many Christian people have Hindu name register in school to avail the quota benefits.

This is my view from what I have experience and what I have seen. But can silverfox tell us how Sonia is related to this religion conversion..is it just because she is christian?

I believe this conversion’s are possible, because some group is doing this sincerely as job spending/investing in dollars. ("Job" because they get paid for it $$$$)

**SodeSceriobia** · 05-23-2007, 02:26 PM

sirs- i have one doubt. if a woman marries a man of different religion, then does she not automatically inherit the religion of her husband? then how does sonia maino continue to be a christian even after marrying rajiv gandhi?

**+++Poguru+++** · 08-30-2007, 05:12 PM

On the eve of independance, some senior congress leaders requested Sri
Chandrasekharendra Swamigal to give two messages - one as blessings to
the people and the other as advice to the politicians and legislators. The
former was promptly released to the press and the latter was held back,
never to be published. Swamiji's advice to the politicians was not palatable
and did not suit their political ambitions.
Swamiji strongly advocated that 'Anti-conversion' law be enacted, pointing
out the conversion of Hindus to Christianity and Islamic religion by force.
Dissociation from religion is not secularism, Swamiji told them. On the contrary, the Government, while not associating with any one particular religion, must patronise all the religions uniformly and without any bias to
anyone particular religion. The Government must not extend special benefits
and concessions to anyone particular religion to the detriment of other
religions. This is what is meant by secularism, he told them.
Our Hinduism contains philosophy of self-realization, dharma sastras laying
down codes of conduct and various methods and forms of worship and
hence is full-fledged and all-embracing. We do not need any other
instructions from other religions. What we have is adequate to mould men
and to develop healthy minds. If we have good citizens, the work of the
Governement is minimised. Sanathana Dharma teaches the ways and
methods to cleanse our minds and more than that, it shows us the way
to self-realization or liberation or moksha.
Swamiji wanted the Government to patronise all the religions equally to
raise the quality of men. He wanted a law to be enacted to prevent
forced conversions and treat such conversions as serious crimes. Converting
by force, by offering money, by offering to construct hospitals and schools
etc are all termed as conversions by force. One can build a hospital or a
school with an intention to serve people , but that noble objective must
not be used to serve their mean objective of conversion !
But the men then in powers would have none of this !
In Tamil-Nadu , Selvi Jayalalitha enacted anti-conversion law, but this
was later withdrawn with the elections in mind. The central problem is
that Hinduism is associated with the Aryans ( Brahmins ). So, all except
brahmins join together to put down Hinduism. It is all the work of selfish
politicians to come to power and/or stay in power.
The famous ( infamous ! ) VP Singh ushered in Mandal-Masjid politics, and
the fire is still burning, oftentimes fuelled by the politicians.

**Vmysobfi** · 08-30-2007, 10:47 PM

The central problem is
that Hinduism is associated with the Aryans ( Brahmins ). So, all except
brahmins join together to put down Hinduism. It is all the work of selfish
politicians to come to power and/or stay in power.

Precisely the point Mr Ranganathan.

However i think as a community we didnt help ourselves by having very ossified views about brahmanism.

I think some of us have to come out of the "eternal denial mode" that brahmanism didnt cause any oppression at all.

The dravida clan is very smartly using the "real and imaginary" acts to whip up the passion against the Brahmins.

I write in another forum, Karuthu. Very senior, well-placed guys still have such staunch hatred for brahmins.

I think the failure of the brahmins to take lead to create a more inclusive society in the public domain is the biggest cause of our misery. This mean that the dravida clan, today, does fault us for what are our valid private practices which is the price we are paying for lack of leadership.

We also have to align our thinking to certain realities such as "Opening of Priesthood" and "Tamil poojas" for example and not use them as planks for establishing our religious suzerainty.

**avappyboalt** · 08-31-2007, 08:08 AM

On a lighter note !!!!
Conversion , in maths ! can be defined as changing the way to represent measurement or units !! say inches to cm , temp deg centigrade to kelvin , etc and this conversion is to left to the user ,to maintain the uniformity of the system , he adopts !

However, No one bothers if a conversion is made from one unit to another in mathematics , but why is it so serious about Religion??
GOD IS ONE , the channels to approach him are many ! The Human Brain is unique , but its usage varies !
If one pushes another and accomplishes this task , then it could be either due to the following logically :
The mental frame of mind of the person who changes , who is desiring this change for any reason which could be petty, circumstancial , financial, ethical or more than often due to his faithfulness to abide by the decision taken by his own close group of people .

As far as i know any hindu has his option of changing GOD's whenever his prayers and wishes don;t come true with any particular GOD , u can change from mariamman to adiparashakthi to murugan to vinayagar to sivaperumal at your will and wish !

When a HINDU does not find the GOD's in the temple, near to him to have sufficient capability and power and has to resort to a distant GOD away from his home town , where he has more faith and gives more than full contribution , does it really matter if people convert ?????
Just curious for answers !!

**lizadax** · 08-31-2007, 10:16 PM

Mr. Hariharan.
I am not with you as far as allowing others to perform the functions of
archakas in the Temple. As you are aware, even the brahmin-devotees
are not allowed to enter the sanctum-santorum ( garbhagraham ) of the
Temples in order to preserve the sanctity ( sannithyam ) of the Deity.
The archakas must be pure in body and mind. You perhaps know that
they must get up at 4 in the morning, do poojas in their houses ( pancha-yudana or SriVidya or something else as is their custom ) chanting
Rudram, chamakam , sukthas and other mantras and then only enter the
Temple precinct. We can not disturb the Vedagama rules to suit the
political ends.

In regard to archana in Tamil, this is being done in some Temples.

Look at the crowd at the Temples now - in Palani, Tiruvannamalai, Madurai,
Trichy, Chidambaram, Tirupathi and Sabarimalai. Lakhs of people
circumambulate Tiruvannamalai Mountain every Full Moon day. They
belong to different castes. All these theistic devotees are not demanding
that archanas must be performed in Tamil; neither are they demanding
that non-brahmins must be allowed to do archanas. They have full faith
in us.

It is the politicians mean gibberish to show that they have brought out
some social reforms !!!

**Tuqofiw** · 08-31-2007, 10:19 PM

Mr. Hariharan.
I am not with you as far as allowing others to perform the functions of
archakas in the Temple. As you are aware, even the brahmin-devotees
are not allowed to enter the sanctum-santorum ( garbhagraham ) of the
Temples in order to preserve the sanctity ( sannithyam ) of the Deity.
The archakas must be pure in body and mind. You perhaps know that
they must get up at 4 in the morning, do poojas in their houses ( pancha-yudana or SriVidya or something else as is their custom ) chanting
Rudram, chamakam , sukthas and other mantras and then only enter the
Temple precinct. We can not disturb the Vedagama rules to suit the
political ends.

In regard to archana in Tamil, this is being done in some Temples.

Look at the crowd at the Temples now - in Palani, Tiruvannamalai, Madurai,
Trichy, Chidambaram, Tirupathi and Sabarimalai. Lakhs of people
circumambulate Tiruvannamalai Mountain every Full Moon day. They
belong to different castes. All these theistic devotees are not demanding
that archanas must be performed in Tamil; neither are they demanding
that non-brahmins must be allowed to do archanas. They have full faith
in us.

It is the politicians mean gibberish to show that they have brought out
some social reforms !!!

**uncoosesoge** · 08-31-2007, 11:29 PM

Mr.Vijisesh,
Mathematics, although not in its entirety but at least arithmetic, is
necessary for living; but Life is not mathematics!
GOD is one and the same for all of us irrespective of your religion and
faith. Your argument crumbles in your hands sir. If a devotee does
not see God here , he can't see HIM in other religions as well.
Our Sanathana Dharma offers you everything , be it worldly things or
be it liberation from samsara. It needs total faith in the sastras and
efforts.
In Karma Kanda portion of the Vedas, many rituals and yagnas are
prescribed. If you perform those with shradda, Devas confer upon you
the fruits as prescribed.
Or if you desire self-realization , you can go thru' the Gnana Kanda, that is
the Upanishad portion. As a matter of fact, the purpose of human
birth is self-realization. You need some basic qualifications, which are:
1.Nithya-anithya vasthu vivekam 2. Iha-amudra-phalabhoga-viragam
3. samadhi-shadga-sampatthi and 4. mumushuthvam. After these
basics, you have to go thru' sadhanas which will ultimately lead you to
self-realisation. You are then freed from the shackles of the cycles of
births and deaths.
I have put these very briefly, and if you desire to read further, you can
study Adi Sankara's ' Viveka Chudamani '. You will certainly be convinced
that our religion offers the Ultimate to us ,showing the pathway clearly.
sir, where then is the need for conversion ?

**qd0vhq4f** · 08-31-2007, 11:31 PM

Mr.Vijisesh,
Mathematics, although not in its entirety but at least arithmetic, is
necessary for living; but Life is not mathematics!
GOD is one and the same for all of us irrespective of your religion and
faith. Your argument crumbles in your hands sir. If a devotee does
not see God here , he can't see HIM in other religions as well.
Our Sanathana Dharma offers you everything , be it worldly things or
be it liberation from samsara. It needs total faith in the sastras and
efforts.
In Karma Kanda portion of the Vedas, many rituals and yagnas are
prescribed. If you perform those with shradda, Devas confer upon you
the fruits as prescribed.
Or if you desire self-realization , you can go thru' the Gnana Kanda, that is
the Upanishad portion. As a matter of fact, the purpose of human
birth is self-realization. You need some basic qualifications, which are:
1.Nithya-anithya vasthu vivekam 2. Iha-amudra-phalabhoga-viragam
3. samadhi-shadga-sampatthi and 4. mumushuthvam. After these
basics, you have to go thru' sadhanas which will ultimately lead you to
self-realisation. You are then freed from the shackles of the cycles of
births and deaths.
I have put these very briefly, and if you desire to read further, you can
study Adi Sankara's ' Viveka Chudamani '. You will certainly be convinced
that our religion offers the Ultimate to us ,showing the pathway clearly.
sir, where then is the need for conversion ?

**lookanddiscover** · 09-01-2007, 02:45 AM

Great stuff!

**cookiemonster** · 09-01-2007, 04:06 AM

Mr.Vijisesh,
It is not easy to study and assimilate all these in 3 or 4 days. If you are
new to this subject, I would advise you to start with Adi Sankara's
' Tattva bodham ', then ' Atma bodham ' and then to 'Viveka chudamani'.
You get all these books at Sri Ramakrishna Mutt Publications and also at
Chinmayananda publications, in english/tamil/hindi.
Good luck !

10-06-2006, 04:46 PM	#1
UvjqTVVC Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 437 Senior Member	More conversions! I was sick to read this. Sonya Gandhi's plans are working! UP: 350 Hindus convert to Christianity UNI \| October 05, 2006 \| 01:04 IST About 350 Hindus of the district adopted Christianity at a conversion ceremony held in Baksha area in Jaunpur.Official sources on Wednesday said the 350 Hindus belonged to Agraura, Sonwar, Saduddinpur, Dhaniamau, Uttarpatti and Rari villages of Baksha. The conversion ceremony took place on Tuesday at Belhara village, where Father Rajendra Chauhan read out the gospel to them. He also gave each of the neo-convertees a locket of Jesus Christ. Meanwhile, Angad Singh -- the husband of Belhara gram pradhan Tulsa -- alleged the poor Hindus were forcibly converted by the Christian missionaries. He has submitted a compliant at the Baksha police station against the missionaries involved in the ''forced" conversions. However, an FIR is yet to be registered. Since the last four years, Christian missionaries have been active in the block, encouraging poor villagers to adopt Christianity. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-06-2006, 05:27 PM	#2
shanice Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 374 Senior Member	Dear Friends, This will continue to happen as long as we do not accept and treat our downtrodden brethren better. It is not money alone. It is more than that. Pranams, KRS Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2006, 12:38 AM	#3
Dapnoinaacale Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 465 Senior Member	Dear KRS: You are absolutely right; this casteism is a cancer in the Hindu society and we cannot complain about the conversions (forced or not) until we start treating these people as fellow Hindus and treat them well. The politicians (MK) are foolishly playing with fire - they are only interested in pandering to christians and muslims so keep the vote bank; they are not looking ahead as to what could happen to India. In the meantime, sadly, the christianization of India continues. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-07-2006, 03:21 AM	#4
Encannavalf Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 459 Senior Member	Dear Friends, This will continue to happen as long as we do not accept and treat our downtrodden brethren better. It is not money alone. It is more than that. Pranams, KRS It is not because of the treatment meted out to the downtrodden in Hindu society.The lot of the Dalits is worse in CHRISTIANITY. Please read the book entitled "CHRISTHAVAMUM SAATHIYUM" (CHRISTIANITY & CASTE) written by a communist & dedicated to veteran CPI leader NALLAKKANNU. The book has been written impartially & dispassionately. It describes how uppercaste Vellala Christians made life hell for NADAR & HARIJAN Christians in different parts of T.N. The situation has not improved even now. Recently there was a programme on WIN TV on how Telugu-speaking Reddy Christians are harassing Tamil Harijan Christians near Madhuranthakam. The book "CHRISTHAVAMUM SAATHIYUM" has been published by "KAALACHUVADU PATHIPPAGAM", NAGARKOVIL, Kanyakumari Dt. Nowadays Dalits are not attracted to Christianity. THEY PREFER ISLAM BECAUSE CASTEISM & UNTOUCHABILITY ARE LESS IN ISLAM THAN IN CHRISTIANITY. In fact casteism and untouchability are worst in Christianity. It is because of billions of dollars pumped into India by the EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS OF U.S.A. WITH THE ACTIVE CONNIVANCE OF GEORGE W. BUSH (WHO HIMSELF IS A "BORN AGAIN" EVANGELIST) that Dalits & non-Dalits are attracted towards Christianity.There are TWO 24 HOUR CHRISTIAN PROPAGANDA CHANNELS IN TAMIL ALONE, NAMELY "ANGEL TV" & "BLESSING TV" run by two Tamil evangelists. Where did they get the money from ? It requires crores of rupees for hiring a transponder on a satellite & at least Rs.TEN LAKHS every day for maintaining the Channel. Where did these Indian "evangelists" get the money from? Moreover, they do not have any advertisement income. So, if people are embracing Christianity TODAY, it is not because of untouchability, since untouchability is worse in Christianity. Dalits who want to escape from untouchability & casteism, CONVERT TO ISLAM & NOT TO CHRISTIANITY. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-13-2006, 02:49 AM	#5
Feelundseenna Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 457 Senior Member	You should watch the televisions here in the morning. One ministry after another preaching Christianity for close to 2-3 hrs in like 3 diff tv channels. those who do convert are simply falling into false promises and trap. the moment they convert, they leave behind all their previous friends and relatives. so their only "friend" is the church. once they realize what they have got into, they cannot go out because they dont have anyone to fall back on apart from the church which will duly ban them. so for fear of being alienated all those who converted stay converted evn though deep down they regret it every single moment. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-13-2006, 06:13 AM	#6
slimsex Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 459 Senior Member	In a lighter vein, i often wonder about the 'confused state of mind' of such converts. Venkatesan becomes John Venkatesan & Srinivasan becomes Stephen Srinivasan. If they have decided to 'convert' pray why they want to carry the baggage of Venkatesan & Srinivasan.... Also a clever strategy employed by these evangelists is to use such JV's & SS's to drive home the message further. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-10-2007, 06:53 AM	#7
DoctorNelsonOnten Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 392 Senior Member	All the points are heard from hindus only.One of my friend in Rajapalayam told me that people got converted for the sake of 250/-.In a village near chengalpattu some 100 families of hindus got converted getting 10000/- and few people become 'FATHERS' and now they started converting people. I was told by one christian friend who is a moderate that if we show some organization about the list of convertees accordingly money will be pocketed. For the poor people (here mostly dalits) they dont find difference between Krishna and Christ initially. Only after a few years they are mesmerised.Many nadars even after conversion they were mingling and calling with old relationship with hindu nadars but in due course the difference brewed and now there started fights.Everywhere dalits are treated as dalits and uppercaste dont treat them same. Only in Hinduism slowly the situation has changed.Even in muslims Pathans,Khans cant move freely with dalit converts. Till money is allowed to flow from foreign countries to charities these conversion will take place in large scale.And the media are supportive of such conversion so we have to fight a big battle if we need to stop conversion. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-10-2007, 06:22 PM	#8
lionsiy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 565 Senior Member	Folks, Conversions are not new to India. But what is alarming is that the conversions are no more based on an individual's choice of a religion - which should be respected, while understanding that a person's birth religion has everything that a person requires, in terms of cultural, philosophical and life support. Nowadays, conversions have become a 'business' because of the foreign money thrown for it, to 'harvest the hapless souls'. This plays right in to the vote bank politics also. But my only question is this - if our religion takes care of EVERYONE in it's fold, will there be any conversions? Who is responsible for this? Why do we have folks in Hinduism, who would convert on the basis of receiving money? Again, who is responsible for this state of affairs and who should resolve this? Just simple questions we all should be asking ourselves, in my humble opinion. Pranams, KRS Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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05-15-2007, 03:51 PM	#9
Gaiaakgyyyg Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 376 Senior Member	It's very heart wrenching to know that many hindus are being converted to christianity.Embracing a religion is no fault but accepting a religion out of another's compulsion is something preposterous.Sadly,people,in need of money are converted to the religion .Is this what is called religion?Donating money and other things as such to people and mesmerising them?God,my blood boils with anger!How can people stoop to such low levels?I ain't blaming the chrsitians alone for this?What the hell makes people convert to other religions for the nedd of sheer money? I'd say converting to other religions has increased coz of materialism and nothing else.People have become self centered and materialistic,of late and the least they care about,is religion. I'm not complaining but this very stuff happens in my college too.Many hostel girls(christians) are mesmerising others,if i may say,and forcibly convert them.One of my classmates is now a a very "devout" christian and inspite of her mother telling her to stop doing something stupid like this,she says she'd convert sometime later and wouldnt listen to anybody.What can possibly go wrong with thses people?I dont blame the christians but i'd rather praise them!Where's the self control for these people??!!! I'd strongly recommend that people read about our culture and the significance of our religion in the school level.But demons(our politicianjs) wont do that.They's rather we read quran and the holy bbible!Whoa!They intervene in religious issues when they arent a wee bit interested in religion and brand themseldves as "thi ka " activists!How convenient??!!! Every body must be aware of our cultural ethics and must fast atleast during Ekadasi s.Only if that happens will we not become a minority,at the rate the conversion level goes. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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05-23-2007, 08:56 AM	#10
BodeOmissemia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 491 Senior Member	SILVERFOX what is this “conversions” to do with Sonia Gandhi ? "Abdul katharukkum ammavasikum enna sammantham" Mr.Chanakya comment is close to reality. To my knowledge many village in Tamilnadu, lot of old people convert to Christianity to avail the facility in “homes for old” provided by Christian community and lot of poor convert to get some money and job in Christian missionary. And Dalit leader do this mass conversion for political stunt. Also people loose the SC/ST status when they convert to Christian, so this is never brought officially, many Christian people have Hindu name register in school to avail the quota benefits. This is my view from what I have experience and what I have seen. But can silverfox tell us how Sonia is related to this religion conversion..is it just because she is christian? I believe this conversion’s are possible, because some group is doing this sincerely as job spending/investing in dollars. ("Job" because they get paid for it $$$$) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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05-23-2007, 02:26 PM	#11
SodeSceriobia Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 429 Senior Member	sirs- i have one doubt. if a woman marries a man of different religion, then does she not automatically inherit the religion of her husband? then how does sonia maino continue to be a christian even after marrying rajiv gandhi? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-30-2007, 05:12 PM	#12
+++Poguru+++ Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 592 Senior Member	On the eve of independance, some senior congress leaders requested Sri Chandrasekharendra Swamigal to give two messages - one as blessings to the people and the other as advice to the politicians and legislators. The former was promptly released to the press and the latter was held back, never to be published. Swamiji's advice to the politicians was not palatable and did not suit their political ambitions. Swamiji strongly advocated that 'Anti-conversion' law be enacted, pointing out the conversion of Hindus to Christianity and Islamic religion by force. Dissociation from religion is not secularism, Swamiji told them. On the contrary, the Government, while not associating with any one particular religion, must patronise all the religions uniformly and without any bias to anyone particular religion. The Government must not extend special benefits and concessions to anyone particular religion to the detriment of other religions. This is what is meant by secularism, he told them. Our Hinduism contains philosophy of self-realization, dharma sastras laying down codes of conduct and various methods and forms of worship and hence is full-fledged and all-embracing. We do not need any other instructions from other religions. What we have is adequate to mould men and to develop healthy minds. If we have good citizens, the work of the Governement is minimised. Sanathana Dharma teaches the ways and methods to cleanse our minds and more than that, it shows us the way to self-realization or liberation or moksha. Swamiji wanted the Government to patronise all the religions equally to raise the quality of men. He wanted a law to be enacted to prevent forced conversions and treat such conversions as serious crimes. Converting by force, by offering money, by offering to construct hospitals and schools etc are all termed as conversions by force. One can build a hospital or a school with an intention to serve people , but that noble objective must not be used to serve their mean objective of conversion ! But the men then in powers would have none of this ! In Tamil-Nadu , Selvi Jayalalitha enacted anti-conversion law, but this was later withdrawn with the elections in mind. The central problem is that Hinduism is associated with the Aryans ( Brahmins ). So, all except brahmins join together to put down Hinduism. It is all the work of selfish politicians to come to power and/or stay in power. The famous ( infamous ! ) VP Singh ushered in Mandal-Masjid politics, and the fire is still burning, oftentimes fuelled by the politicians. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-30-2007, 10:47 PM	#13
Vmysobfi Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 511 Senior Member	The central problem is that Hinduism is associated with the Aryans ( Brahmins ). So, all except brahmins join together to put down Hinduism. It is all the work of selfish politicians to come to power and/or stay in power. Precisely the point Mr Ranganathan. However i think as a community we didnt help ourselves by having very ossified views about brahmanism. I think some of us have to come out of the "eternal denial mode" that brahmanism didnt cause any oppression at all. The dravida clan is very smartly using the "real and imaginary" acts to whip up the passion against the Brahmins. I write in another forum, Karuthu. Very senior, well-placed guys still have such staunch hatred for brahmins. I think the failure of the brahmins to take lead to create a more inclusive society in the public domain is the biggest cause of our misery. This mean that the dravida clan, today, does fault us for what are our valid private practices which is the price we are paying for lack of leadership. We also have to align our thinking to certain realities such as "Opening of Priesthood" and "Tamil poojas" for example and not use them as planks for establishing our religious suzerainty. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-31-2007, 08:08 AM	#14
avappyboalt Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 329 Senior Member	On a lighter note !!!! Conversion , in maths ! can be defined as changing the way to represent measurement or units !! say inches to cm , temp deg centigrade to kelvin , etc and this conversion is to left to the user ,to maintain the uniformity of the system , he adopts ! However, No one bothers if a conversion is made from one unit to another in mathematics , but why is it so serious about Religion?? GOD IS ONE , the channels to approach him are many ! The Human Brain is unique , but its usage varies ! If one pushes another and accomplishes this task , then it could be either due to the following logically : The mental frame of mind of the person who changes , who is desiring this change for any reason which could be petty, circumstancial , financial, ethical or more than often due to his faithfulness to abide by the decision taken by his own close group of people . As far as i know any hindu has his option of changing GOD's whenever his prayers and wishes don;t come true with any particular GOD , u can change from mariamman to adiparashakthi to murugan to vinayagar to sivaperumal at your will and wish ! When a HINDU does not find the GOD's in the temple, near to him to have sufficient capability and power and has to resort to a distant GOD away from his home town , where he has more faith and gives more than full contribution , does it really matter if people convert ????? Just curious for answers !! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-31-2007, 10:16 PM	#15
lizadax Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 394 Senior Member	Mr. Hariharan. I am not with you as far as allowing others to perform the functions of archakas in the Temple. As you are aware, even the brahmin-devotees are not allowed to enter the sanctum-santorum ( garbhagraham ) of the Temples in order to preserve the sanctity ( sannithyam ) of the Deity. The archakas must be pure in body and mind. You perhaps know that they must get up at 4 in the morning, do poojas in their houses ( pancha-yudana or SriVidya or something else as is their custom ) chanting Rudram, chamakam , sukthas and other mantras and then only enter the Temple precinct. We can not disturb the Vedagama rules to suit the political ends. In regard to archana in Tamil, this is being done in some Temples. Look at the crowd at the Temples now - in Palani, Tiruvannamalai, Madurai, Trichy, Chidambaram, Tirupathi and Sabarimalai. Lakhs of people circumambulate Tiruvannamalai Mountain every Full Moon day. They belong to different castes. All these theistic devotees are not demanding that archanas must be performed in Tamil; neither are they demanding that non-brahmins must be allowed to do archanas. They have full faith in us. It is the politicians mean gibberish to show that they have brought out some social reforms !!! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-31-2007, 10:19 PM	#16
Tuqofiw Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 500 Senior Member	Mr. Hariharan. I am not with you as far as allowing others to perform the functions of archakas in the Temple. As you are aware, even the brahmin-devotees are not allowed to enter the sanctum-santorum ( garbhagraham ) of the Temples in order to preserve the sanctity ( sannithyam ) of the Deity. The archakas must be pure in body and mind. You perhaps know that they must get up at 4 in the morning, do poojas in their houses ( pancha-yudana or SriVidya or something else as is their custom ) chanting Rudram, chamakam , sukthas and other mantras and then only enter the Temple precinct. We can not disturb the Vedagama rules to suit the political ends. In regard to archana in Tamil, this is being done in some Temples. Look at the crowd at the Temples now - in Palani, Tiruvannamalai, Madurai, Trichy, Chidambaram, Tirupathi and Sabarimalai. Lakhs of people circumambulate Tiruvannamalai Mountain every Full Moon day. They belong to different castes. All these theistic devotees are not demanding that archanas must be performed in Tamil; neither are they demanding that non-brahmins must be allowed to do archanas. They have full faith in us. It is the politicians mean gibberish to show that they have brought out some social reforms !!! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-31-2007, 11:29 PM	#17
uncoosesoge Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 398 Senior Member	Mr.Vijisesh, Mathematics, although not in its entirety but at least arithmetic, is necessary for living; but Life is not mathematics! GOD is one and the same for all of us irrespective of your religion and faith. Your argument crumbles in your hands sir. If a devotee does not see God here , he can't see HIM in other religions as well. Our Sanathana Dharma offers you everything , be it worldly things or be it liberation from samsara. It needs total faith in the sastras and efforts. In Karma Kanda portion of the Vedas, many rituals and yagnas are prescribed. If you perform those with shradda, Devas confer upon you the fruits as prescribed. Or if you desire self-realization , you can go thru' the Gnana Kanda, that is the Upanishad portion. As a matter of fact, the purpose of human birth is self-realization. You need some basic qualifications, which are: 1.Nithya-anithya vasthu vivekam 2. Iha-amudra-phalabhoga-viragam 3. samadhi-shadga-sampatthi and 4. mumushuthvam. After these basics, you have to go thru' sadhanas which will ultimately lead you to self-realisation. You are then freed from the shackles of the cycles of births and deaths. I have put these very briefly, and if you desire to read further, you can study Adi Sankara's ' Viveka Chudamani '. You will certainly be convinced that our religion offers the Ultimate to us ,showing the pathway clearly. sir, where then is the need for conversion ? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-31-2007, 11:31 PM	#18
qd0vhq4f Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 585 Senior Member	Mr.Vijisesh, Mathematics, although not in its entirety but at least arithmetic, is necessary for living; but Life is not mathematics! GOD is one and the same for all of us irrespective of your religion and faith. Your argument crumbles in your hands sir. If a devotee does not see God here , he can't see HIM in other religions as well. Our Sanathana Dharma offers you everything , be it worldly things or be it liberation from samsara. It needs total faith in the sastras and efforts. In Karma Kanda portion of the Vedas, many rituals and yagnas are prescribed. If you perform those with shradda, Devas confer upon you the fruits as prescribed. Or if you desire self-realization , you can go thru' the Gnana Kanda, that is the Upanishad portion. As a matter of fact, the purpose of human birth is self-realization. You need some basic qualifications, which are: 1.Nithya-anithya vasthu vivekam 2. Iha-amudra-phalabhoga-viragam 3. samadhi-shadga-sampatthi and 4. mumushuthvam. After these basics, you have to go thru' sadhanas which will ultimately lead you to self-realisation. You are then freed from the shackles of the cycles of births and deaths. I have put these very briefly, and if you desire to read further, you can study Adi Sankara's ' Viveka Chudamani '. You will certainly be convinced that our religion offers the Ultimate to us ,showing the pathway clearly. sir, where then is the need for conversion ? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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09-01-2007, 02:45 AM	#19
lookanddiscover Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 527 Senior Member	Great stuff! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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09-01-2007, 04:06 AM	#20
cookiemonster Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 515 Senior Member	Mr.Vijisesh, It is not easy to study and assimilate all these in 3 or 4 days. If you are new to this subject, I would advise you to start with Adi Sankara's ' Tattva bodham ', then ' Atma bodham ' and then to 'Viveka chudamani'. You get all these books at Sri Ramakrishna Mutt Publications and also at Chinmayananda publications, in english/tamil/hindi. Good luck ! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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