[Dvjkefdw]

Finally, Alhamdulillah.....

http://www.themajlis.co.za/books/Al-...ranslation.pdf

[padlabtard]

TAKBEER!

Jazak Allah Khair for the link!

[AALee]

A more detailed elaboration of some of the issues addressed in Al-Muhannad can be found in Faisla Kun Munazara (written in: 1373 H/1953 CE) by Maulana Manzur Nu'mani. It demonstrates in the clearest, most unambiguous manner, the deception and lies of Maulana Ahmad Raza Khan in his desperate attempts to force an interpretation of kufr against four of the greatest scholars of his era.

Anyone who reads this book will be truly shocked at the extent of his dishonesty.

Translations of this book will be made available soon

[Dvjkefdw]

A more detailed elaboration of some of the issues addressed in Al-Muhannad can be found in Faisla Kun Munazara (written in: 1373 H/1953 CE) by Maulana Manzur Nu'mani. It demonstrates in the clearest, most unambiguous manner, the deception and lies of Maulana Ahmad Raza Khan in his desperate attempts to force an interpretation of kufr against four of the greatest scholars of his era.

Anyone who reads this book will be truly shocked at the extent of his dishonesty.

Translations of this book will be made available soon

Can you kindly keep us updated when the translations are out?

Jazakallah khair

[AALee]

Can you kindly keep us updated when the translations are out?

Jazakallah khair

sunniforumers will be the first to find out when the translations are out.

Anyone who reads this book, will empathise completely with the behaviour of today's Barelwis, who only inherited the distinctive character traits that are endemic in them.

[AALee]

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...186#post742186

[Lerpenoaneway]

Isn't Ml. Numani (the author of the above book) the person who wrote a book claiming that most of the accusations agains ibn abdul Wahhab are a result of 'propaganda' by Arab 'ulema? As learned as he might be I find it uncomfortable in relying upon anything he might say.

Confusion is probably the best thing deobandis are good at propagating despite their knowledge..I just don't know what to make of them. The Ameer of this forum says that a certain imam of the Haram is a 'hardcore wahhabi' and staunch anti-'ashari' yet we see other deobandi ulema allegedly proclaim the same imam as the 'greatest leader of muslims in our time' (!!!)..

Then we see deobandis denouncing the commemoration of the Mawlid, yet they have no problems in organising a 150th Birthday Bash for Deoband!!! With Sh. Ibn Baz as the guest of honour no less! If the confusion didn't frustrate the hell out of me, I'd be laughing my head off!

So conclusion, for me personally, when it comes to matters of 'contraversy' I don't take deobandis seriously anymore as I'm sure they can be accused of what they are accusing others for too no doubt.

[zoolissentesy]

Isn't Ml. Numani (the author of the above book) the person who wrote a book claiming that most of the accusations agains ibn abdul Wahhab are a result of 'propaganda' by Arab 'ulema? As learned as he might be I find it uncomfortable in relying upon anything he might say.

Confusion is probably the best thing deobandis are good at propagating despite their knowledge..I just don't know what to make of them. The Ameer of this forum says that a certain imam of the Haram is a 'hardcore wahhabi' and staunch anti-'ashari' yet we see other deobandi ulema allegedly proclaim the same imam as the 'greatest leader of muslims in our time' (!!!)..

Then we see deobandis denouncing the commemoration of the Mawlid, yet they have no problems in organising a 150th Birthday Bash for Deoband!!! With Sh. Ibn Baz as the guest of honour no less! If the confusion didn't frustrate the hell out of me, I'd be laughing my head off!

So conclusion, for me personally, when it comes to matters of 'contraversy' I don't take deobandis seriously anymore as I'm sure they can be accused of what they are accusing others for too no doubt.

hmmm.

[scemHeish]

Isn't Ml. Numani (the author of the above book) the person who wrote a book claiming that most of the accusations agains ibn abdul Wahhab are a result of 'propaganda' by Arab 'ulema? As learned as he might be I find it uncomfortable in relying upon anything he might say.

Confusion is probably the best thing deobandis are good at propagating despite their knowledge..I just don't know what to make of them. The Ameer of this forum says that a certain imam of the Haram is a 'hardcore wahhabi' and staunch anti-'ashari' yet we see other deobandi ulema allegedly proclaim the same imam as the 'greatest leader of muslims in our time' (!!!)..

Then we see deobandis denouncing the commemoration of the Mawlid, yet they have no problems in organising a 150th Birthday Bash for Deoband!!! With Sh. Ibn Baz as the guest of honour no less! If the confusion didn't frustrate the hell out of me, I'd be laughing my head off!

So conclusion, for me personally, when it comes to matters of 'contraversy' I don't take deobandis seriously anymore as I'm sure they can be accused of what they are accusing others for too no doubt.

Hit the nail on the head.

[elektikakass]

well brother sunniseeker the deobandis come in all shapes and forms. The gulf between arab sufi ulema is also very wide. You have syed muhammad bin alawi al maliki rh praising shaykh muhammad ibn abdul wahab whilst others denounce him. You get dr wahba zuhayli against tasawur e shaykh, hadra etc (same for shaykh bouti) whilst others allow it. You get some like shaykh nuh keller who completely disallow shaking of the hands of ghair mahrams, emphasise niqab etc whilst some in morroco are totally against niqab and shake hands with ghair mahram. You get shaykh murabit al hajj db saying that a person can't be a shaykh without a beard whilst many of the syrian/morrocan sufi shaykhs muqadims mock those with a beard.

The ulema of deoband take different positions based on their own research and understanding.

[gerturiotf]

Isn't Ml. Numani (the author of the above book) the person who wrote a book claiming that most of the accusations agains ibn abdul Wahhab are a result of 'propaganda' by Arab 'ulema? As learned as he might be I find it uncomfortable in relying upon anything he might say.

Confusion is probably the best thing deobandis are good at propagating despite their knowledge..I just don't know what to make of them. The Ameer of this forum says that a certain imam of the Haram is a 'hardcore wahhabi' and staunch anti-'ashari' yet we see other deobandi ulema allegedly proclaim the same imam as the 'greatest leader of muslims in our time' (!!!)..

Then we see deobandis denouncing the commemoration of the Mawlid, yet they have no problems in organising a 150th Birthday Bash for Deoband!!! With Sh. Ibn Baz as the guest of honour no less! If the confusion didn't frustrate the hell out of me, I'd be laughing my head off!

So conclusion, for me personally, when it comes to matters of 'contraversy' I don't take deobandis seriously anymore as I'm sure they can be accused of what they are accusing others for too no doubt.

Well, Shaykh, the fact is that you hate the Deobandis and the followers of Ibn 'Abdul Wahhab. Which is why you don't take the Deobandis seriously. And we don't take you seriously.

[Cheaperisdeeper]

Isn't Ml. Numani (the author of the above book) the person who wrote a book claiming that most of the accusations agains ibn abdul Wahhab are a result of 'propaganda' by Arab 'ulema? As learned as he might be I find it uncomfortable in relying upon anything he might say.

Confusion is probably the best thing deobandis are good at propagating despite their knowledge..I just don't know what to make of them. The Ameer of this forum says that a certain imam of the Haram is a 'hardcore wahhabi' and staunch anti-'ashari' yet we see other deobandi ulema allegedly proclaim the same imam as the 'greatest leader of muslims in our time' (!!!)..

Then we see deobandis denouncing the commemoration of the Mawlid, yet they have no problems in organising a 150th Birthday Bash for Deoband!!! With Sh. Ibn Baz as the guest of honour no less! If the confusion didn't frustrate the hell out of me, I'd be laughing my head off!

So conclusion, for me personally, when it comes to matters of 'contraversy' I don't take deobandis seriously anymore as I'm sure they can be accused of what they are accusing others for too no doubt.

Just cut the cheap shots and save your 'Ala Hadrath from eternal disgrace.

Hit the nail on the head.

Yup, on Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwi's head. That's why the book is known as Faysalah Kun Munazarah

[zoolissentesy]

well brother sunniseeker the deobandis come in all shapes and forms. The gulf between arab sufi ulema is also very wide. You have syed muhammad bin alawi al maliki rh praising shaykh muhammad ibn abdul wahab whilst others denounce him. You get dr wahba zuhayli against tasawur e shaykh, hadra etc (same for shaykh bouti) whilst others allow it. You get some like shaykh nuh keller who completely disallow shaking of the hands of ghair mahrams, emphasise niqab etc whilst some in morroco are totally against niqab and shake hands with ghair mahram. You get shaykh murabit al hajj db saying that a person can't be a shaykh without a beard whilst many of the syrian/morrocan sufi shaykhs muqadims mock those with a beard.

The ulema of deoband take different positions based on their own research and understanding.

For example within a Madhab itself, sometimes scholars have different opinions, sometimes contrary to the official position of that Madhab. That doesn't negate anything. Same can be said about scholars of Deoband. If one really look into the kind of scholars Deoband has produced with the Mercy of Allah, its just common sense 'to take them seriously.'

Well this is nothing to argue about. Lets not make this go to 100 pages.

[LoohornePharp]

Even with these differences of opinion, no one is being a takfiri or accusing others of bid'ah or shirk.

As for those saying that Deoband celebrating 150 years is some sort of contradiction when Deoband is against celebrating the mawlid, these people have no idea why Deoband does not allow celebrating the mawlid. The celebration of 150 years for Deoband holds no spiritual significance. It has no religious significance. Can you say the same about the mawlid? No one said that on the 150th anniversary of Darululoom Deoband, there would be some sort of special barakah or a higher likelihood of du'as being accepted or anything of that sort. And I'm pretty sure many Deobandis were against this celebration to begin with.

And I thought Shaykh bin Baaz passed away over a decade ago?

Also, it's interesting to see people who usually already side with the mubtadi' on these "contraversial" issues high-fiving each other.

In the end, the way to judge how much of a "Deobandi" someone is, the akabireen have to be used as a standard.

[AALee]

Brother Sunniseeker and Naqshbandi, it may be better to consider the possibility that the confusions only exist in your present understanding, and that there are valid explanations which you haven't come across.*

Have you even examined sufficiently Maulana Manzur Nu'mani's evidence for his assertion regarding the propaganda by some leading Arab ulama, before making such a premature judgement on all his writings?

Regarding the Mawlid, an act to which Haram attachments has become so endemic, such as its widespread regard as a Sunnah or Wajib Ibadah, and another event which is not even regarded as Ibadah, and at best a Mubah act, then* I will try to address this 'confusion' and one or two others, in more detail when time permits insha'Allah.

There is also a reason why people get agitated and frustrated when they cannot accept the fact that Deobandis are not a monolithic group with which they can tar with one brush, even though the differences amongst them are much fewer than in other Maslaks.*

If you read the book with an open mind, then I'm confident it'll become clear to you who the righteous ulama were in the Indian subcontinent, at the inception of this terrible fitnah.

[dWSOj26H]

would the book by Ml. Numani sahib(rh) be available in english?

[Lerpenoaneway]

for your attempt to explain matters. Tell me for example why Ml. Khalil Ahmad in the Muhannad agrees with Ibn Abidin's assertion of ibn Abdul Wahhab and his followers as the khawaarij of the era - was it to pacify and please the 'Arab ulema (I would assume/hope not). This book was supposed to be the 'official' response of Deoband to certain questions. Yet few years down the line we see prominent ulema as Ml. Numani backtracking and brushing it off as propaganda.

I'm not saying the Deobandi ulema are a monolithic group but they have certain commonalities eg. the issue of the Mawlid. Despite it being validated by other ulema, the deobandis go o lengths in accusing people of bida for comemmorating it....since when is celebrating birthdays allowed in Islam, imitating Christians, the early salaf never did this etc. etc.

Yet they have no problems celebrating the the 150th birthday anniversary of the Darululum Deoband?? Since when was this established as an Islamic practice did the Prophet salAllahu 'alayh wassalam or the Sahaba mark anniversaries of Darul Arqam?

You brother SeekerofGuidance post translations of Imam Rabbani that seem to fit your agenda yet ignore other passages that seem to go against your agenda - if you are going to use him as your proof at least be honest and quote everything the Imam had to say on the matter..not snippets here and there.

To me Deobandis and Barelwis are the same in their dishonesty..there is no difference between the people who support them fanatically and those pathetic people in places like Bangladesh who fanatically support the various political parties. Same stupid mentality.

[Cheaperisdeeper]

Yet they have no problems celebrating the the 150th birthday anniversary of the Darululum Deoband?? Since when was this established as an Islamic practice did the Prophet salAllahu 'alayh wassalam or the Sahaba mark anniversaries of Darul Arqam?

You are misinformed on this point. It was not the commemoration of the 'birthday' anniversary.

The Darul Uloom was formed in 1866. The centenary (Ijlas Sadsala) was commemorated in 1980, ie after 114 years. This is the first Dastar Bandi Jalsa of Darul Uloom Deoband

[AALee]

for your attempt to explain matters. Tell me for example why Ml. Khalil Ahmad in the Muhannad agrees with Ibn Abidin's assertion of ibn Abdul Wahhab and his followers as the khawaarij of the era - was it to pacify and please the 'Arab ulema (I would assume/hope not). This book was supposed to be the 'official' response of Deoband to certain questions. Yet few years down the line we see prominent ulema as Ml. Numani backtracking and brushing it off as propaganda.

I'm not saying the Deobandi ulema are a monolithic group but they have certain commonalities eg. the issue of the Mawlid. Despite it being validated by other ulema, the deobandis go o lengths in accusing people of bida for comemmorating it....since when is celebrating birthdays allowed in Islam, imitating Christians, the early salaf never did this etc. etc.

Yet they have no problems celebrating the the 150th birthday anniversary of the Darululum Deoband?? Since when was this established as an Islamic practice did the Prophet salAllahu 'alayh wassalam or the Sahaba mark anniversaries of Darul Arqam?

Can you show precisely where did Shaykh Khalil Ahmad Saharanpur accuse Shaykh Ibn Abdul Wahhab of being amongst the Khawarij?

On an issue in which there is some ambiguity, it is reasonable to expect some degree of differences in any group of Ulama. Those who feel confusion and frustration at the Deobandis should search their hearts to see whether they feel exactly the same sentiments when hearing that Arab Sunni Ulama such as Shaykh Abdul Fattah Abu Ghuddah and Shaykh Muhammad Al-Alawi also referred to Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab with praiseworthy words. Any underlying prejudice and bias will then become apparent.

If even 'Salafi' scholars such as al-Shawkani and Nawwab Siddique Khan were taken in by the false propaganda, is it too far-fetched to believe that others may also have been influenced? Some of the compelling evidence that supports Maulana Manzur Numani's assertions regarding the false propaganda will be posted soon insha'Allah.

As to the apparent contradiction in your mind regarding the Mawlid, I'll need to write in more detail regarding this when time permits, but it should suffice to say that there is a world of difference in fiqh classification between actions that have become associated with the Deen as Sunnah/Wajib Ibadah, and actions that have yet to acquire any relation to Ibadah in the eyes of the people.

[AALee]

You brother SeekerofGuidance post translations of Imam Rabbani that seem to fit your agenda yet ignore other passages that seem to go against your agenda - if you are going to use him as your proof at least be honest and quote everything the Imam had to say on the matter..not snippets here and there.

Please specify any statement of the Mujaddid that you feel was quoted out of context, and I will try bring the whole letter in the relevant thread, for your satisfaction