[JessePex]

salaam

i have heard a lot of good reviews of the scholars from this madrassa, darul mustafa. however i just want to know if they are in belief of the prophet(s.a.w) is haazir naazir like some of the barelwis and their beliefs.

[Abofedrorobox]

you dont realy hear them speaking of this issue. the problem with the berelwis is that they make haazir & nazir the criteria for imaan & they raise the arguement to a level that makes us all kaafir. just for the record, habib umar was asked about this befor his visit to south africa but didnt answer the way the berelwis wanted. needless to say his lessons were poorly attended by berelwis.

[JessePex]

you dont realy hear them speaking of this issue. the problem with the berelwis is that they make haazir & nazir the criteria for imaan & they raise the arguement to a level that makes us all kaafir. just for the record, habib umar was asked about this befor his visit to south africa but didnt answer the way the berelwis wanted. needless to say his lessons were poorly attended by berelwis.

i wonder what is the reason for their silence on this issue. it is a very important aspect of aqeedah. on top of that i have also seen habib jafar(i think his name is) in videos participating in a sufi zikr dance...just wondering.

maybe anyone who has travelled there can clarify inshallah

[Abofedrorobox]

i stayd in tarim for nearly a year. look its only a big issue because berelwis choose to make it a big issue. nobody in the arab world goes to the extreme but when it happens the ulamah will speak up. if they speak about it then people will start speaking & the ignorant will be lead astray. you would listen to lectures about love for Rasulullah SAWS but thats as far as they go, & trying to adopt his character.
the ulama of tarim follow the ba alawi order which doesnt even have a rocking motion, but they would tell you that every sufi order has different practices & they will never speak badly about any aslong as they not clearly haraam.

[JessePex]

akhee, i know its an issue the barelwis have turned it into gold, but our ulama are of the opinion that the haazir naazir belief is of kufriyyah. thats the reason why im questioning it. what did u study at tareem?

[dianakroshXX]

Beliving Hadir Nadhir to refer to the fact that our actions are presented to him, salla Llahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam, and that his ruh can move (and is not everywhere), is surely not kufr! This is what the Haba'ib believe, and what the Braylawis say they believe too.

was-salam

[spineeupsenry]

you dont realy hear them speaking of this issue. the problem with the berelwis is that they make haazir & nazir the criteria for imaan & they raise the arguement to a level that makes us all kaafir. just for the record, habib umar was asked about this befor his visit to south africa but didnt answer the way the berelwis wanted. needless to say his lessons were poorly attended by berelwis.

What was Habib Umar's response to the question?

It seems there is a difference of approach between Habib Ali and the other Haba'ib we have seen (e.g. Habib Umar and Habib Kazim). For example his visit to Shaykh Nazim Haqqani. Who is Habib Ali's murshid?

Another question, I have heard that they sometimes use music in their zikr in later stages (like the flute). Do you know if this is true or false? What is their stance on music and zikr?

[dianakroshXX]

What was Habib Umar's response to the question?

It seems there is a difference of approach between Habib Ali and the other Haba'ib we have seen (e.g. Habib Umar and Habib Kazim). For example his visit to Shaykh Nazim Haqqani. Who is Habib Ali's murshid?

Another question, I have heard that they sometimes use music in their zikr in later stages (like the flute). Do you know if this is true or false? What is their stance on music and zikr?

How is there a difference between Habib 'Ali and Habib 'Umar and Habib Kazim? As for the visit to Shaykh Haqqani, Habib Kazim also visitted him with his father, and so did Habib Abu Bakr, an elder Habib. Habib 'Ali's murshid was Habib 'Abdul Qadir as-Saqqaf, then Habib 'Umar. Any other examples of this so-called difference in approach?

There is no 'later stages'. It's nothing to do with tariqah: the fuqaha' of hadramawt permitted the flute along with the duff, following Imam ar-Rafi'i of the Shafi'i madh-hab. And a shafi'i can tell you ar-Rafi'is place in the madh-hab, only second to an-Nawawi.

[unmalryAlalry]

lol not this again

[JessePex]

Beliving Hadir Nadhir to refer to the fact that our actions are presented to him, salla Llahu 'alayhi wa alihi wa sallam, and that his ruh can move (and is not everywhere), is surely not kufr! This is what the Haba'ib believe, and what the Braylawis say they believe too.

was-salam

akhee, i have heard a lot of things but this a first...im confused...what do you mean?

[dianakroshXX]

akhee, i have heard a lot of things but this a first...im confused...what do you mean?

http://www.islamweb.net/fatwa/index....Option=FatwaId

The above, though a salafi site, admits that some Imams have made tas-hih of that hadith. The reason I say the Haba'ib believe this is because I've heard Habib 'Umar quoting the hadith.

Oh, and as for tasarruf al-awrah, here's something from Ibn al-Qayyim: http://cb.rayaheen.net/showthread.php?tid=34993

If it's shirk, Ibn al-Qayyim is the first mushrik.

[LoloLibia]

Oh, and as for tasarruf al-awrah, here's something from Ibn al-Qayyim: http://cb.rayaheen.net/showthread.php?tid=34993

If it's shirk, Ibn al-Qayyim is the first mushrik.

The quoted part from Kitab al-Ruh is totally irrelevant for the shirki belief of the Barelwis surrounding absolute tasarruf al-umur. The text mentions only that the souls of the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) and his 2 companions defeated a whole army.

From where you get the hint from that portion about establishing tasarruf al-umur beats me. Also, tasarruf is not even the case. Ml. Zakariyya talked about in Aap Biti as did others. This is the tasarruf we talk about, as explained by Amjad Ali in his Bahare Shari'at:

6.Amjad ‘Ali A’zimi, the deputy (khalifah) of Ahmad Rada Khan Barelwi, writes in Bahar-i-Shari‘ah (p.1: 30-31), a book of fiqh for the general public, “Our Master, the Prophet (may Allah bless him and give him peace), is the absolute deputy of Allah Most High. He has been given control (tassaruf) over the entire universe. He may do as he desires, give to whomsoever he wishes, take from anyone whatever he desires. None in the universe can deny his rulings. The entire universe is under his governance and he is under the authority of none except Allah. He is the owner (malik) of all humans. Anyone who does not accept him to be his owner (malik) remains devoid of the sweetness of the Sunnah. All the earth is his property. Paradise is his estate. The angels of earth and the sky are under his authority. The keys to paradise and hell have been given to him in his noble hand. Sustenance, goodness and other types of blessings are distributed from his noble office. This world and the hereafter is a portion of his blessings. The rulings of Shari‘ah have been delegated to his authority. He may make impermissible (haram) for anyone whatever he decides. Similarly, he may make permissible (halal) whatever he wishes and exempt whatever obligation (fard) he desires.”

THAT is the tasarruf we are talking about it. If you can establish this for anyone, then we have no hesitation in branding such a person as a mushrik.

[herawaq]

There is no 'later stages'. It's nothing to do with tariqah: the fuqaha' of hadramawt permitted the flute along with the duff, following Imam ar-Rafi'i of the Shafi'i madh-hab. And a shafi'i can tell you ar-Rafi'is place in the madh-hab, only second to an-Nawawi.

Brother, could you explain Imam ar-Rafi`i's position on music, and provide sources?

It's not that I don't believe you, it's just the first I've heard this, and I'm interested in exactly what he has to say.

[clomoll]

Brother, could you explain Imam ar-Rafi`i's position on music, and provide sources?

It's not that I don't believe you, it's just the first I've heard this, and I'm interested in exactly what he has to say.

It is the position of Imam Rafai.... A valid position of the Shafi madhab... But it is not the dominant position of the Shafi madhab, but followable.

[yespkorg]

As-salamu ´alaykum,

It is correct that Imam al-Rafi´i (rahmatu'Allahi ´alayh) permitted (a type of) flute. His statement is second only to Imam al-Nawawi (rahmatu'Allahi ´alayh) in the school. However, keep in mind that this does not necessarily mean their personal opinions are authorative, as you will find Nawawi saying that such and such is the opinion of the school, yet he himself goes to disagree with it, without it (his personal opinion) becoming the mu´tamad. However, in the Shafi´i school there is some freedom in following opinions other than the mu´tamad, and one would not be censored for playing the flute based on the fatwa of Rafi´i.

Wa'Llahu a'lam

[Abofedrorobox]

akhee, i know its an issue the barelwis have turned it into gold, but our ulama are of the opinion that the haazir naazir belief is of kufriyyah. thats the reason why im questioning it. what did u study at tareem?

arabic, fiqh, tajweed & some taswuf

[Abofedrorobox]

What was Habib Umar's response to the question?

It seems there is a difference of approach between Habib Ali and the other Haba'ib we have seen (e.g. Habib Umar and Habib Kazim). For example his visit to Shaykh Nazim Haqqani. Who is Habib Ali's murshid?

Another question, I have heard that they sometimes use music in their zikr in later stages (like the flute). Do you know if this is true or false? What is their stance on music and zikr?

habib ali is a mureed of habib umar no doubt, the picture of bayat at the hands of sh nizaam could have been for barakah only. yes they use flutes in hadhra saqaf, the flute used is permissable according one view in the shafi' madhab. the daff is halaal & to put the steel on the side of the daff is permissable too.

[WFSdZuP3]

aslaamualaikum,
Could Somebody Please Elaborate on Dar Al Mustafa , I really want to go their InshAllah, I am 13 at the momment what is the requiered age, I met Habib Kazzzim The other day, MashAllah, AA Great Scholar, Nothing to be worried about, Just Because Someboody visits Shaykh Nazim does not make one 'dodgy'.

[Abofedrorobox]

you would only be able to go with your parents since you only 13. unless you can arrange a gaudian in tareem.

[herawaq]

As-salamu ´alaykum,

It is correct that Imam al-Rafi´i (rahmatu'Allahi ´alayh) permitted (a type of) flute. His statement is second only to Imam al-Nawawi (rahmatu'Allahi ´alayh) in the school. However, keep in mind that this does not necessarily mean their personal opinions are authorative, as you will find Nawawi saying that such and such is the opinion of the school, yet he himself goes to disagree with it, without it (his personal opinion) becoming the mu´tamad. However, in the Shafi´i school there is some freedom in following opinions other than the mu´tamad, and one would not be censored for playing the flute based on the fatwa of Rafi´i.

Wa'Llahu a'lam

So his opinion wasn't the allowing of any musical instruments? Just the daff and flute? And you mention he allowed a type of flute, so am I correct to assume that not all things that are called flutes today would fit into what he found permissible? And could you provide some kind of reference for where I could find his opinion? I was accused of modernism the last time I related a Shafi`i opinion to some friends (the beard), and I'd like to avoid that if possible.

Also, this is somewhat related, but is Imam Ghazali's opinion on musical instruments seen as a valid opinion within the Madhab or not?