[leijggigf]

Abu ‘Umar al-Saif, may Allâh accept him, said: “There is no significance in memorizing texts or studying knowledge, rather the important thing for knowledge to be beneficial is purity and piety of the one receiving the knowledge. If the heart is pure, then knowledge is beneficial and, Allâh permitting, Muslims will benefit from this knowledge.

“But if the heart receiving this knowledge is hypocritical or sick then its owner will perforce suppress the truth, slander Allâh with lies and dissuade (people) from the cause of Allâh. His words and fatwas become a cover for lackey governments to cover their crimes against Islam and the Muslims.”

Ibn Qayyim, may Allâh have mercy on him, said: All among the people of knowledge who prefer and desire the world must undoubtedly speak untruths about Allâh in their fatwas and judgments , in their decisions and edicts. Because the judgments of the Lord Almighty often are at odds with the desires of the people, especially those in power. Those who follow their longings cannot attain their desires except by often violating and repudiating the truth. The scholar or the ruler who loves power and follows his desires will not achieve either except by resisting the truth that opposes him, especially if a shubhah (doubtful area) was established for him. The shubhah and the desire will be in agreement and passion will be stirred up. What is proper will be hidden and the face of truth will be obliterated. If the truth is obvious and there is no hiding it and no ambiguity about it, he purposely violates it, saying: “I have a way out through repentance.” About them and those like them, the Almighty said, {Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salât (the prayers) [ie. made their Salât (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times] and have followed lusts...} [Sûrah19. Maryam (Mary) Ayât. 59


For someone to claim to be an authority ( ie. memorize Quran, study ifta course, etc) and to be apostate signifies the desire to have power over others for his own sick pleasure.

[attanilifardy]

That's why i did not wanted to share my personal matter. No one here know me in person. but you are keep saying what you believe. Do i have the option to delete this thread? if not i'm requesting to moderator to delete it. There will be no discussion in this thread. Whatever i did, i'll deal with your god after i die naturally if it become possible. But i don want you people deal with my life as i don't want to deal with your life. So keep on the subject. of delete the post. pleas. I guess umar do not agree with xs11as that a foreign citizen should not give the capital punishment for apostasy. Do any one know the law of soudi arabia on this matter?

[dogdesign]

That's why i did not wanted to share my personal matter. No one here know me in person. but you are keep saying what you believe. Do i have the option to delete this thread? if not i'm requesting to moderator to delete it. There will be no discussion in this thread. Whatever i did, i'll deal with your god after i die naturally if it become possible. But i don want you people deal with my life as i don't want to deal with your life. So keep on the subject. of delete the post. pleas. I guess umar do not agree with xs11as that a foreign citizen should not give the capital punishment for apostasy. Do any one know the law of soudi arabia on this matter?

Over to the mods.

Edit: please only lock do not delete. We need an example of a troll.

@other please do NOT reply. for not feeding trolls.

[attanilifardy]

amr, i did my ifta courses in madrasha. I will not inform u where it is. I can tell you some keyword from my ifta knowledge if you want. And i will also ask you to read my previous posts, hope you will see that i never try to go on fighting over keyboard. I did not try even today to engage in un-productive discussion here. I did not open the thread in that way. Also i'll ask you to see my post, see if you find i claim that i know all things! my personal matter is irreverent. umar ask 2 times that why it is written non muslim in my profile and here why i'm not start believing islam again. That's why i replied him. In this forum, you can not send personal message i guess. Whenever i click on profile, it says i do not have permission to see it, otherwise i would personally letting umar know about it.

[dogdesign]

amr, i did my ifta courses in madrasha.

You won't get any kind of discussion here unless you say where did you learn your ifta course from.

[attanilifardy]

Tell me why you need it to know?

[dogdesign]

Tell me why you need it to know?

You yourself said you learnt ifta course and gave fatwas.

And if u ask me what is my educational level on islam, i can tell u that it is not much but it is also not less, i memorized the complete quran so i know quran by heart. then i have taken ifta course, i don know what u call it, people who finish studying ifta can give fatwa.

We need to know Where you did your ifta course.

This forum does not entertain trolls.

[Shark&Nike]

Are you saying that we are in a state of war with nonMuslim nations that openly occupy Muslim lands, engage in military operations both overt and covert in Muslim lands, conspire to overthrow Muslim regimes, propagate ideas which are openly opposed to Islam, and harbor and protect individuals who blatantly commit crimes against Muslims?

are you saying that i am saying that we are in a state of war with nonMuslim nations that openly occupy Muslim lands, engage in military operations both overt and covert in Muslim lands, conspire to overthrow Muslim regimes, propagate ideas which are openly opposed to Islam, and harbor and protect individuals who blatantly commit crimes against Muslims?

[Shark&Nike]

whats wrong with you people? why are you berating the OP about his apostasy and about his claim that he studied in a madrasah? he is asking a question so just answer the question. i have answered it from what i found and understand. if i am wrong then correct my reply. the OP's apostasy and his claim to have studied will have no bearing on the answer.

some people do become apostates from islam, hence why there is a prescribed punishment. it is the apostate at loss not islam or Allah. all we can do is try to invite them back to the deen.....but at the end of it guidance is not in our hands, but in the hands of Allah.

@studyete.....umar is not more liberal than me and neither am i more conservative than him. we both follow the quran and the sunnah as guided by those who have knowledge. we both follow the understanding of the hanafi school. maybe i am wrong, maybe umar is wrong, or maybe there might be 2 opinions within the deen and the judge can use his discretion when making a judgement. Allah hu alam. as for yourself, i recommend that you speak to a learned person about your misconception of islam. it cant do any harm.

[dogdesign]

whats wrong with you people? why are you berating the OP about his apostasy and about his claim that he studied in a madrasah? he is asking a question so just answer the question. i have answered it from what i found and understand. if i am wrong then correct my reply. the OP's apostasy and his claim to have studied will have no bearing on the answer.

Brother, none of us want to feed trolls. Do you think someone who claims to be Hafl and studied in an ifta will come to an internet forum for advice on apostasy. I think not, he is lying and just want to argue.

[Shark&Nike]

Brother, none of us want to feed trolls. Do you think someone who claims to be Hafl and studied in an ifta will come to an internet forum for advice on apostasy. I think not, he is lying and just want to argue.

we are the ones who started the arguments and inquiry. just give him the correct answer whether it is sweet or bitter and leave it at that.

[attanilifardy]

You can not find by asking me whether i'm lying or not, because i can made it up. If you google to know some books from hanafi and shafi over internet, you can easily made up this thing. if you want know in which steps what i've learn in which age. mail me studyete@yahoo.com. I'll tell you from which age i've started madrasa and my evolution. Even after that, you might have doubt about it, in that case, you need to meet me in person to show you my certificates and recite you my memorization. None of this is relevent here. I'm feeling bad because i should not break the peace of your believe. I said it because i thought umar might ask what i know about islam and other staffs which i did tell other apostate like me and attack them personally. Thanks xs11as that he understand what i wanted to know.

[dogdesign]

we are the ones who started the arguments and inquiry. just give him the correct answer whether it is sweet or bitter and leave it at that.

Brother, so you didn't see him post statements like 'Islamic barbaric laws' and 'i will deal with your god' etc. Please read the whole thread.

[oranowdenda]

If a foreign citizen who left islam and become apostate, if he visit any country where shariah law is present, will the man brought to trial for apostasy and will he be given capital punishment?

Have you looked up the dictionary for the term: banal?

[dogdesign]

You can not find by asking me whether i'm lying or not, because i can made it up. If you google to know some books from hanafi and shafi over internet, you can easily made up this thing. if you want know in which steps what i've learn in which age. mail me studyete@yahoo.com. I'll tell you from which age i've started madrasa and my evolution. Even after that, you might have doubt about it, in that case, you need to meet me in person to show you my certificates and recite you my memorization.

Lol. yea right.

Tell me where did you learn your ifta course?
And who said one can give Fatwa after learning in an ifta course?

[Pcodaygs]

I'm feeling bad because i should not break the peace of your believe..

i'm glad you feeling bad.

may ALLAH TA'AALA through his infinite mercy bring you back in to the crystal clear and beautiful religion of islaam... amin.

[attanilifardy]

amr, plz do try to find my other question in this forum, i did only ask the question, i did not said anything about my opinion. I only see the discussion of other, even i do not said i disagree with your answer in any of my posts. in some case, i just said well, i know it that way. but that's it, so hope you will go for the discussion now.

[dogdesign]

@others
Look what he posted earlier, and deciede for yourself, if he deserves a reply.

And if u ask me what is my educational level on islam, i can tell u that it is not much but it is also not less, i memorized the complete quran so i know quran by heart. then i have taken ifta course, i don know what u call it, people who finish studying ifta can give fatwa. I have twisted many fatwa here in my country to save many peoples life in many ways. I knew what is the verdict on this matter, there are many ways to look on it.

That's why i did not wanted to share my personal matter. No one here know me in person. but you are keep saying what you believe. Do i have the option to delete this thread? if not i'm requesting to moderator to delete it. There will be no discussion in this thread. Whatever i did, i'll deal with your god after i die naturally if it become possible. But i don want you people deal with my life as i don't want to deal with your life. So keep on the subject. of delete the post. pleas.

Verdict: TROLL.

[Foucceedo]

Studyete,
Please contact some Darul Ifta.

[attanilifardy]

amr, when muslim say that their god burn me forever after death (which is okey to you and you claim yourself human!), that mean i have to deal with him "after death". So i said according to my believe i'll deal with him after death, you do not need to worry about me "after death". And your law might seems to me as barbaric, same way my law might seems to you barbaric. If you say it, i would not be offended for that.