[Nglvayhp]

How do salafis differ with us in aqeedah?

(sincere question, not trying to cause fithna)

[SantaGanstag]

....get ready for some insincere answers and major cyber fitna....

[TubOppomo]

How do salafis differ with us in aqeedah?

(sincere question, not trying to cause fithna)

Sidi Faqir just had a huge thread dedicated to just this, but the mods here felt it was detrimental to the overall enviroment of the forum.

If you go over to Marifa . net - faqir, who is a mod there, has all the answers you need in the salafi section and the aqeedah sectiuons

[Fhgzmftq]

How do salafis differ with us in aqeedah?

(sincere question, not trying to cause fithna)

Basically, there are words found in the Qur'an and Ahadeeth that would literally translate to hands, face, etc.
Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah has two positions on this.
One is of the majority of the Salaf, who won't explain these words/ayahs, and leave them as mutashabihats.
The other position is to explain these words and ayahs with meaning that is best suited to Allaah's majesty.


The present day Salafis have a different position.
They would take these words in their literal sense, but then won't describe them any further.
This differs from the first position I mentioned in the way that in the first position of Ahlus Sunnah wal jama'ah, they won't even insist on a literal establishment of these words. Rather they won't even go into explaining them. In contrast, the Salafis would insist on the literal meaning, but won't describe them.
This way of their explaining has few problems, and that is why all the criticism.

And Allaah knows best.

[Jimambol]

Basically, there are words found in the Qur'an and Ahadeeth that would literally translate to hands, face, etc.
Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah has two positions on this.
One is of the majority of the Salaf, who won't explain these words/ayahs, and leave them as mutashabihats.
The other position is to explain these words and ayahs with meaning that is best suited to Allaah's majesty.


The present day Salafis have a different position.
They would take these words in their literal sense, but then won't describe them any further.
This differs from the first position I mentioned in the way that in the first position of Ahlus Sunnah wal jama'ah, they won't even insist on a literal establishment of these words. Rather they won't even go into explaining them. In contrast, the Salafis would insist on the literal meaning, but won't describe them.
This way of their explaining has few problems, and that is why all the criticism.

And Allaah knows best.

can this belief of the salafis be found in the salaf?

[Nglvayhp]

Basically, there are words found in the Qur'an and Ahadeeth that would literally translate to hands, face, etc.
Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah has two positions on this.
One is of the majority of the Salaf, who won't explain these words/ayahs, and leave them as mutashabihats.
The other position is to explain these words and ayahs with meaning that is best suited to Allaah's majesty.


The present day Salafis have a different position.
They would take these words in their literal sense, but then won't describe them any further.
This differs from the first position I mentioned in the way that in the first position of Ahlus Sunnah wal jama'ah, they won't even insist on a literal establishment of these words. Rather they won't even go into explaining them. In contrast, the Salafis would insist on the literal meaning, but won't describe them.
This way of their explaining has few problems, and that is why all the criticism.

And Allaah knows best.

I understand this much.

We try to stay away from doing ta'weel on such ayah. And they interperate the ayah but dont ask "how"

Correct?

There is a hadith of imam malik that my salafi friend mentioned to me to prove their stance,
But mufti abdur rahman ibn yusuf also mentioned this hadith to prove our stance.

Is anyone able to get a text version of this hadith? Or tell me where i can find it?

It is when a man comes to imam malik and asks how Allah rises above his throne

Also what was the aqeedah of imam abu hanifa :rah: ? The salafi brother i speak to uses his book fiqh al akbar but says our aqeedah is flawed???

Wasnt the maturidi school of aqeedah taken from imam abu hanifas works?

[botagozzz]

The Beliefs of the Sunni Way

Answered by Shaykh Amjad Rasheed

Question:

What is the belief (‘aqida) of Ahl al-Sunna? Is it correct to believe that Allah is everywhere? What is the difference between the belief of the Salafis and the belief (‘aqida) of Ahl al-Sunna?

Answer:

The answer to this question requires detail and explanation, and it is obligatory for the questioner to learn [h: what he or she has asked] from a trustworthy teacher according to the way of the Sunnis (Ahl al-Sunna wa’l-Jama‘ah), which is [h: represented by] the Ash‘aris and Maturidis ([h: which are schools ascribed to] the two Imams, Abu’l-Hasan al-Ash‘ari and Abu Mansur al-Maturidi).

By doing so, [h: the questioner] will learn the belief (‘aqida) of the Sunnis (Ahl al-Sunna wa’l-Jama‘ah) and also how others have gone against them in certain beliefs. If it is not possible for him or her to learn this directly [h: from a teacher], then he or she should at least read a book on the subject, such as the book “The Jerusalem Creed” (al-‘Aqida al-Qudsiyya), by Imam al-Ghazali, which is printed in the beginning of the book Ihya ‘Ulum al-Din, [1] or one may read some other book, such as Kubra al-Yaqiniyyat al-Kawniyya, by the great scholar, Dr. Muhammad Sa‘id Ramadan al-Bouti. [2] However, what cannot be completely attained should not be completely left, so I say:

Sunni Belief

What is obligatory for all Muslims to believe is that Allah is perfect in his entity, names, and attributes, and that He is transcendently beyond every attribute that does not befit Him, Most High. Space and time, therefore, do not encompass Him; rather, He created them both. Neither His entity nor His attributes resemble anything of His creation. “There is nothing whatsoever like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing.” (42:11).

Neither the heavens nor the earth encompass Him, and He is not described by saying that His entity is literally above the heaven. Rather, He is above everything in His tremendous power and His magnificent wisdom. [h: That He is not literally above the heaven is proved by what] he (Allah bless him and give him peace) said in a rigorously authenticated hadith narrated by Imam Muslim: “… You are the Outwardly Manifest (dhahir) so there is nothing above You, and You are the Inwardly Hidden (batin) so there is nothing below You.” [3]

One may not say that Allah has a wajh (lit. “face”) or a yad (lit. “hand”) in the literal sense of these words because the literal meaning of each of these words in the Arabic language denotes a limb that is connected to the body and that could be separated from it, and our Lord is far above this.

Whatever mention of wajh (lit. “face”), ‘ayn (lit. “eye”), yad (lit. “hand”), and qadam (lit. “foot”) that has been made in certain noble verses and authenticated hadiths is interpreted according to meanings that befit Allah Most High’s entity. For example, His Most High’s saying, “Everything on it shall perish and the tremendous and mighty wajh of your Lord shall remain.” (55:26-27) [] What is meant by wajh (lit. “countenance”) in the verse is His Most High’s entity (in other words, “Everything except Allah shall perish”); nothing else can be meant by it.

In the Arabic language, wajh can be used to refer to the entity. Otherwise [h: if one interpreted wajh to mean “face”, for example], it would necessitate that His Most High’s entity is divisible and that part of it shall perish. This is both rationally and legally impossible and it is not permissible for anyone to believe in it.

Another example is His Most High’s saying about the ark of our master Nuh (upon him be blessings and peace), “It sailed in our ‘ayn.” (54:14). [h: The preposition ba’ in the verse] does not connote that the ‘ayn physically contained [h: the ark]; nor does the verse mean that Allah has an ‘ayn (lit. “eye”) in the literal sense of the word and that the ark sails inside it. No one believes this except for an ignoramus who has no veneration for Allah. Rather, what is meant by the verse is that the ark sailed under Allah’s care and protection so that it did not drown like everything else did at that particular time. In the Arabic language, ‘ayn can be used to refer to protection and care.

Is it permissible to believe that Allah is everywhere?

The belief that Allah Most High is personally in every location is a completely false belief that is not permissible for anyone to hold. Rather, what is obligatory to believe (as mentioned above) is that Allah is transcendently beyond occupying space and it is obligatory to forbid anyone who says anything else, for [h: anything else] constitutes anthropomorphism [4], which is completely incorrect. An example [h: of such anthropomorphism] is what some ignorant laypeople over here say (intending to venerate Allah by their saying it), “Glory be to Him in His place.” It is obligatory to explain the mistakenness of this expression and to guide them to what is correct.

If, however, a Muslim believes that Allah is everywhere in His knowledge, thereby meaning that He (Glory be to Him) knows everything at every time and place, it is a correct belief and it what is meant by His Most High’s saying, “He is with you wherever you are,” (57:4) i.e., “He is with you in His knowledge so that nothing of His creation is concealed from him.”

Difference between Sunni belief and Salafi belief

Regarding the difference between the belief of the Sunnis (Ahl al-Sunna wa’l-Jama‘ah) and the belief of the Salafis ([h: the Salafis] are a group of Muslims who claim ascription to the righteous early Muslims (al-salaf al-salih) in terms of their belief, although in reality, they go against the righteous early Muslims in some of what they claim to agree with them on, as I shall partly explain in what follows), the Salafis go against the Sunnis in some of what I have explained above, such as belief that Allah has a wajh (lit. “face”), ‘ayn (lit. “eye”), yad (lit. “hand”), and qadam (lit. “foot”) in the literal sense of these words. [h: They also go against the Sunnis by believing] that He Most High’s entity is literally above the heaven [5], adducing as proof certain verses and hadiths, although they are mistaken in their understanding.

Rather, the position of the righteous early Muslims from among the Companions, Followers, and followed Imams is that Allah is transcendently beyond the literal meaning of the above-mentioned things because of the baseless anthropomorphism that they comprise, and because—as explained above—the verses and hadiths that have mentioned these matters are interpreted according to meanings that befit His Most High’s entity.

Some of the scholars of the early Muslims (Allah be pleased with them) explicitly stated these meanings whereas others remained silent and sufficed themselves with believing that Allah is transcendently beyond such false meanings, and both approaches are acceptable.[6]

As for a person’s believing that Allah is literally characterized by the above-mentioned matters, this is a completely false position and it goes against the position of the vast majority of the Imams of the Muslims in every time and place. Among the useful books about this subject are Daf‘u Shubah al-Tashbih bi-Akuff al-Tanzih, by the Hanbali Imam and hadith master, Ibn al-Jawzi [7], and Idah al-Dalil fi Qat‘i Hujaj Ahl al-Ta‘til, by the great Shafi‘i Imam, Badr al-Din b. Jama‘ah. Both books have been published. [8]

Amjad Rasheed
Amman, Jordan
(Translated by Hamza Karamali)

Hosted by Sunni Path (http://www.sunnipath.com)

Translator’s Notes:

[1] This has been translated in Book V of the Reliance of the Traveller and also at the back of the booklet, Becoming Muslim, both by Nuh Ha Mim Keller. There is also a brief synopsis of Sunni creed in The Key to the Garden, by Habib Mashhur al-Haddad (translated by Dr. Mostafa al-Badawi).

[2] This has not been translated into English, unfortunately.

[3] For a detailed explanation of why it is not permissible for Muslims to believe that Allah is literally in the sky, see Is it permissible for a Muslim to believe that Allah is in the sky in a literal sense?, by Nuh Ha Mim Keller. The article is available at www.masud.co.uk.

[4] Anthropomorphism (tashbeeh) means likening Allah to His creation.

[5] To believe Allah is above the heaven's literally is against the understanding of the Salafus Saleh (the righteous early Muslims) as indicated in Imam Tahawi (239-321 AH) in his celebrated text Aqidah Tahawi, where he states, "He (Allah) is transcendent beyond limits, ends, supports, components, or instruments. The six directions (up, down, left, right, front, back) do not contain Him as they do created things." (Added by aMuslimForLife)

[6] For an excellent and thoroughly documented account of the position of the early Muslims on the attributes of Allah, see Literalism and the Attributes of Allah, by Nuh Ha Mim Keller. The article is available atwww.masud.co.uk

[7] This book has been translated as Attributes of God translation by Abdullah Bin Hamid, he also has a lecture explaining this book available on his website lamppostproduction. (Added by aMuslimForLife)

[8] This book has not been translated, unfortunately.(Edited by aMuslimForLife)