[jessyhalm]

powerful lobby groups

those that get people kicked out of universities in US for being against US-israel "marriage". most of the time these groups are donors to said universities. remember the names: finkelstein and scheuer. both were kicked out.

[ViaxobbimeVar]

[QUOTE=warea;811652]


The "hiiden elite" argument is just conspiracy theories and unnecessary generalizations. You can dismiss it as mere conspiracy theory yet any serious study will reveal that there is an oligarchy...beyond any doubt....and if we follow the money we can see that billions and trillions go to this oligarchy while the rest pay....if this is conspiracy then you are being wilfully blind unable to see the facts in front of your eyes. I could give you many references.

[GinaIsWild]

this is pretty much what the shura (in the upper tier). for the lower tier perhaps one may look at the system in iran. in the lower cadre however what Islamic shariah demands are appointments. in election campaigns of course the first thing sacrificed is calls and promises for actual implementation or enforcement of Islam. people will not vote for a so-called Mullah even if he is on lower tier. elections assumes that people know collectively what is better for them , when in fact they would always , collectively, go towards the easier options rather than the correct ones. unless of course one has a population that is majorly pious.

plus such elections would retain the corrupt civil servants etc in the public service (after many elections in pakistan and many votes they are still there, but with different parties). such elections would also require a near to 80-90 % turnout (which is rare) and also clean fair elections.

then again in Islam the preferred practice has always been appointments and not self-promotion (as in asking to be appointed) which pretty much nullifies candidacy.

(many people who are pro-democracy make the grave error in assuming that in shariah every appointment is a religious scholar when in fact the person can be anyone who is upright (and preferably religious), it is just that the appointment made is by a scholar)

First there is no legal definition of scholar.
Secondly why should we assume the self appointed class of ulemas will not have their selfish interest ?
Why should they have a veto over others in society who do not wish to follow thier rules ?
Why marginalize religios minorities and minority sects ?

[Machater]

First there is no legal definition of scholar.

There is a grey area over where someone stops being a more advanced student (who is intermediate between scholar and a layman) and where they become a scholar -

but at the end of the day there are people whom the scholars would all recognize as scholars (and they are the scholars)

and there are people who the scholars would all not recognize as scholars (and they are not scholars)

Secondly why should we assume the self appointed class of ulemas will not have their selfish interest ? The established knowledge of the Ulema and the recognition from other Ulema is what 'appoints' them as Ulema.

Why should they be assumed to have 'selfish interests' anymore than anyone else?

Why should they have a veto over others in society who do not wish to follow thier rules ? 'The scholars are the inheritors of the prophets'

[Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud, Ibn Maja etc]

The Ulema are the experts in ALLAH'S RULES

"O you who believe, obey Allah and obey His Messenger, and the people in authority among you.

And if you dispute over anything, refer it to Allah and His Messenger

if you really believe in Allah and the Last Day that is best in terms of consequences."

(Holy Qur'an 4:59)

Why marginalize religios minorities and minority sects ? "He it is Who sent His Messenger with guidance and the Deen of the truth,

to make it prevail over all other religions. And Allah is sufficient as a Witness."

(Holy Qur'an 48:28)

Islam is the WAY that Allah has appointed for mankind.

We have to be nice to them, but we are not to pretend kufr is equal to Islam

[BenBoobmers]

First there is no legal definition of scholar.

there is. it is related to how Islam reached us.

Secondly why should we assume the self appointed class of ulemas will not have their selfish interest ?

we are not. nor are the ulema self appointed. they are 'qualified'. and to curb ulema with selfish interests there are other ulema.

Why should they have a veto over others in society who do not wish to follow thier rules ?

because they represent clear and pure Islam. if someone has a problem with Islam then its their personal choice.

Why marginalize religios minorities and minority sects ?

they aren't 'marginalized'. theyare dealt with in the same way the Prophet (PBUH) and first three generations dealt with them. i hope you are not judging Islamic view on minorities by observing what happens in secular ruled Muslim countries.