[Lapsinuibense]

Look taliban im a guy who doesnt believe this that easily until i dont try or see for my self. Im 20yrs old, sunni and sufi practising mureed of sinsial owaisi. My peer o murshid has told me to recite this and thats what im doing. Im gaining benefits spiritually and seeing things with my own eyes it cant be more authentic than that And my heart tells me its right. Im not stupid in any sense and have common sense to understand what right and wrong and alhamduliiah your older than me i respect you but i shall contact my local mosque imaam tomo and local mufti to clarify this for me. Jazallah

This is not about experiencing things. This is about Shariat. A dua is attributed toward Rasool Allah we need the chain, we need the authenticity.

If you want to experience stuff, you'll experience more in black magic. That makes it right?

[Agedprepdoock]

Okay this is like saying you believe in allah right? have you seen him prove it to me,

You breath in oxygen right? can you see it but you feel it prove to me exists.

If you have issues with authencity of it ask your sheikh or your scholar or sumthing. Like i said i always try things and like to see for myself and if i see or hear things or feel spiritually different than i believe it. I follow my heart and my heart tells me its fine. Like i do zikr i thought was nonsense at first your soul leaving the body and being in another place doing zikr and your heart doing zikr, what i did was try it for my self and experianced the benefits of zikr and happy that i did.

Your example doesn't even fit here.

My shaikh won't know its authenticity and will ask me where did you get it from? What do I say? I found it in a book without any chain? It's not in any hadith book, has no Sahabi as narrator, no muhadditheen have ever mentioned it in any of their books?

[Ad0i89Od]

Whats black magic goto do with anything everything im saying your trying to make issue out of. Not everything has chain look at Sinsila Owaisiah you take bayt directly with Prophet muhammad S.A.W unlike the other tariqa where from one peer to the next. Now sinsila owaisi isnt right? like i said i shall speak to my Local Imaam At Shah Jahan mosque and mufti to clarify. Sufism is wrong than if your talking about shariah its outside of shariah law and boundries? your older than me and i respect you and have right to know the answers but you have to wait. Far as im concerned you ask any peer or shiekh about dua e saifi they will tell what it is as its been passed down through tariqas. If your not aware of it thats different issue but you cant make judgement until you have clarified with scholar.

[KeettyGlots]

Whats black magic goto do with anything everything im saying your trying to make issue out of. Not everything has chain look at Sinsila Owaisiah you take bayt directly with Prophet muhammad S.A.W unlike the other tariqa where from one peer to the next. Now sinsila owaisi isnt right? like i said i shall speak to my Local Imaam At Shah Jahan mosque and mufti to clarify. Sufism is wrong than if your talking about shariah its outside of shariah law and boundries? your older than me and i respect you and have right to know the answers but you have to wait. Far as im concerned you ask any peer or shiekh about dua e saifi they will tell what it is as its been passed down through tariqas.

Actually you are not trying to understand.

No one said Sufism is wrong.

The main thing is, everything should be inside the boundaries of Shariat.

For taking any hadith as authentic, we have to refer to it's chain. If there is not a chain of a hadith then it cannot be accepted as true. This is not a chain of narrators that Jibreel alaihi assalam taught Rasool Allah then he taught Hazrat Ali

The chain of Hadith is something like this:

This is the first hadith of Sahih Bukhari:

حدثنا الحميدي عبد الله بن الزبير قال حدثنا سفيان قال حدثنا يحيى بن سعيد الأنصاري قال أخبرني محمد بن إبراهيم التيمي أنه سمع علقمة بن وقاص الليثي يقول سمعت عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه على المنبر قال سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول إنما الأعمال بالنيات وإنما لكل امرئ ما نوى فمن كانت
هجرته إلى دنيا يصيبها أو إلى امرأة ينكحها فهجرته إلى ما هاجر إليه

The bold is the chain. Then we have muhadditheen who tell us whether the narrators are strong of weak. They grade the hadith. This is how we take ahadith and narrations.

We don't just pick up a book and say, o look... It's written that Jibreel brought this dua. What is the chain?

I brought black magic, because you said you have experienced so much through this dua.

So my question is that if experiencing supernatural things is the criteria of being right then you will experience more super natural things in doing black magic and if you go to Hindu Yogis, you'll see much more than this.

[Vemnagelignc]

Actually you are not trying to understand.

No one said Sufism is wrong.

The main thing is, everything should be inside the boundaries of Shariat.

For taking any hadith as authentic, we have to refer to it's chain. If there is not a chain of a hadith then it cannot be accepted as true. This is not a chain of narrators that Jibreel alaihi assalam taught Rasool Allah then he taught Hazrat Ali

The chain of Hadith is something like this:

This is the first hadith of Sahih Bukhari:

حدثنا الحميدي عبد الله بن الزبير قال حدثنا سفيان قال حدثنا يحيى بن سعيد الأنصاري قال أخبرني محمد بن إبراهيم التيمي أنه سمع علقمة بن وقاص الليثي يقول سمعت عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه على المنبر قال سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول إنما الأعمال بالنيات وإنما لكل امرئ ما نوى فمن كانت
هجرته إلى دنيا يصيبها أو إلى امرأة ينكحها فهجرته إلى ما هاجر إليه

The bold is the chain. Then we have muhadditheen who tell us whether the narrators are strong of weak. They grade the hadith. This is how we take ahadith and narrations.

We don't just pick up a book and say, o look... It's written that Jibreel brought this dua. What is the chain?

I brought black magic, because you said you have experienced so much through this dua.

So my question is that if experiencing supernatural things is the criteria of being right then you will experience more super natural things in doing black magic and if you go to Hindu Yogis, you'll see much more than this.

Good point but i have to get more information on this from Imaam and mufti. You saying about your shiekh not knowing what tariqa you from and your shiekh name please. I know if i ask Peer Alaudin Siddique He will know what dua e saifi is if i ask Peer faiz ul hassan from sultan bahu he will know what dua e saifi, Peer hadam chishti, peer sakib shami he will know what dua e saifi is. If it was bull**** it wouldnt be avail. Anyway i dont want to debate further on this as my knowledge on islam is weak and will get more info from alims.

[NerbuitW]

Good point but i have to get more information on this from Imaam and shiekh. You saying about your shiekh not knowing what tariqa you from and your shiekh name please. I know if i ask Peer Alaudin Siddique He will know what dua e saifi is if i ask Peer faiz ul hassan from sultan bahu he will know what dua e saifi, Peer hadam chishti, peer sakib shami he will know what dua e saifi is. If it was bull**** it wouldnt be avail. Anyway i dont want to debate further on this has my knowledge on islam is weak and will get more info from alims.

Do you think shias are right?

[cholleyhomeob]

In what aspect are shia right they claim yazeed was right on killing imaam hussain and i think yazeed was kafir. they believe hazrat ali is more afzal than abu bakr siddique and speak of other things .

[Ambassador]

In what aspect are shia right they claim yazeed was right on killing imaam hussain and i think yazeed was kafir.

If you go to Shia imams and ask them about lying, they'll say it's a good deed to lie.

And it has huge acceptance in Shia Shaikhs.

So my question is, if it was bull%#$ would it be so widely accepted?

[TimoDass]

Like i said you have your opinion i have mine you cant make me agree on what your thoughts are and vice versa i shall tomo morning contact my local imaam and clairfy this and if they have authentic hadees from sahih bukhari etc i will post all relevent information here to increase both of our islamic knowledge on this dua.


Shah Waliullah muhaddith dehalvi [rh] writes in his book ‘Al Intibah fi Salasil ul Auliaullah’ that he received the ijaza [permission] in Sattariya silsila [ tariqa] He gives the chain of this ijaza contaning names of different scholar including Ghaus Gwaliari who was the chief of Sattariya silsila in India.

Shah Waliullah writes that through this chain he received the’Aurad and wazaif ‘ of Sattariya silsila which includes Dua e saifi and Jawahir Khamsa.

Dua e saifi is a supplication which is taught to mureed by a shaykh who has ijaza to recite and teach this dua. The last part of Dua e saifi consists of Nad e ali which has words like “ Ya Ali , Ya Ali , Ya Abu Turab”.

[Ndptbudd]

Like i said you have your opinion i have mine you cant make me agree on what your thoughts are and vice versa i shall tomo morning contact my local imaam and clairfy this and if they have authentic hadees from sahih bukhari etc i will post all relevent information here to increase both of our islamic knowledge on this dua.

I will wait and keep on checking this thread all day tomorrow.

Please ask him how is this authentic which muhadditheen mentioned this hadith, who are the narrators. How do you know it's true?

And if you can ask him, please ask about the 70000 muakkils. How do they know that this dua has 70,000 muakkils.

Also ask him, which king was ruling in Yemen at the time of Hazrat Ali when the whole of middle east was under the Khilafat e Rashidah.

[wrefrinny]

Inshallah i will ask all those questions today and post back the finding getting reference to any hadees etc put forward by them.

Shah Waliullah muhaddith dehalvi [rh] writes in his book ‘Al Intibah fi Salasil ul Auliaullah’ that he received the ijaza [permission] in Sattariya silsila [ tariqa] He gives the chain of this ijaza contaning names of different scholar including Ghaus Gwaliari who was the chief of Sattariya silsila in India.

Shah Waliullah writes that through this chain he received the’Aurad and wazaif ‘ of Sattariya silsila which includes Dua e saifi and Jawahir Khamsa.

Dua e saifi is a supplication which is taught to mureed by a shaykh who has ijaza to recite and teach this dua. The last part of Dua e saifi consists of Nad e ali which has words like “ Ya Ali , Ya Ali , Ya Abu Turab”.

[TimoPizaz]

Certificates of Khilafah of various Silsilas Imam Ahmad Rida was bestowed with by his Murshid-e-Kamil:

1) Sisilah Tareeqah ‘Aliyyah Qadiriyyah Barkatiyyah Jadidah
2) Sisilah Tareeqah Qadiriyyah Abaiyyah Qadimah
3) Sisilah Tareeqah Qadiriyyah Ahdaliyyah
4) Sisilah Tareeqah Qadiriyyah Razzaqiyyah
5) Sisilah Tareeqah Qadiriyyah Munawwariyyah
6) Sisilah Tareeqah Chishtiyyah Nizamiyyah ‘Atiqiyyah
7) Sisilah Tareeqah Chishtiyyah Mehbobiyyah Jadidah
8) Sisilah Tareeqah Sohrawardiyyah Wahidiyyah
9) Sisilah Tareeqah Sohrawardiyyah Fadliyyah
10) Sisilah Tareeqah Naqshabandiyyah ‘Ula’iyyah Siddiqiyyah
11) Sisilah Tareeqah Naqshabandiyyah ‘Ula’iyyah (the chain linked to the illustrious Sufi Master Sayyid Moula Abu al-‘Ula Naqshabandi Akbarabadi)
12) Sisilah Tareeqah Badi‘iyyah
13) Sisilah Tareeqah ‘Uloh’wiyyah Manamiyyah

These also include the 4 Mystical Musafahas viz;

- The Sanad of Musafaha Jinniyyah
- The Sanad of Musafaha Khidriyyah
- The Sanad of Musafaha Mu‘ammariyyah
- The Sanad of Musafaha Manamiyyah

List of Ijazat of all the Duas, Awrad (Litanies) and Ash’ghaal that was bestowed by Spiritual Inspiration directly into his Heart from the Hearts of his Masha’ikh:

1) The Secrets of the Holy Quran
2) asma-e-Ilahiyyah
3) Dalail al Khayrat
4) Hisne Hasin
5) Qasre-Matin
6) Asma-e-Arba‘inah
7) Hisb al-Bahr
8) Hisb al-Bar
9) Hisb al-Nasr
10) All the Ah’zab of Silsila Shazaliyyah
11) The Hirz of 104,000 Awliya
12) Hirz al-Amirayn
13) Hirze Yamani (also known as Du‘a-e-Saifi Sharif) Again its mentioned in these big wali times and tariqa dua e saifi.
14) Du‘a-e-Mughni
15) Du‘a-e-Haydari
16) Du‘a-e-Izra’ili
17) Du‘a-e-Suryani
18) Qasidah Khamriyyah also famously known as Qasidah Ghawthiyyah
19) Salat al-Asrar or Salat Ghawthiyyah
20) Qasidah Burda
21) Du‘a-e-Bashmakh
22) Takbir-e-‘Ashikan
23) Nim Takbir
24) Irsal al-Hawatif

[phpfoxmods]

Whats black magic goto do with anything everything im saying your trying to make issue out of. Not everything has chain look at Sinsila Owaisiah you take bayt directly with Prophet muhammad S.A.W unlike the other tariqa where from one peer to the next. Now sinsila owaisi isnt right? like i said i shall speak to my Local Imaam At Shah Jahan mosque and mufti to clarify. Sufism is wrong than if your talking about shariah its outside of shariah law and boundries? your older than me and i respect you and have right to know the answers but you have to wait. Far as im concerned you ask any peer or shiekh about dua e saifi they will tell what it is as its been passed down through tariqas. If your not aware of it thats different issue but you cant make judgement until you have clarified with scholar.

brother I read a biography on the site Madinah ghousia I think he is your shaykh Peer Banaras you say he is directly baith with the Prophet and he did some chilla's on one leg etc how can we be sure he is telling the truth he did these things and he has got ijazah from the Prophet ?

[mXr8icOB]

Well if you read on the website about sinsila owaisiah you would have better understanding. Plus you have to come and see for your self. Thats what i was trying to explain to taliban that until you dont recite the dua your self you cant say its wrong or etc. but bringing my shiekh into this topic is pointless. im gonna ask my local imaam to clarify this matter. im not saying you to believe in my sheikh allah swt given you free will you can decide for your self.

[embefuri]

The last part of Dua e saifi consists of Nad e ali which has words like “ Ya Ali , Ya Ali , Ya Abu Turab”.

Isn't that enough proof that it is a fake Dua. If 'supposedly' our Beloved Rasoolullah taught this Dua to Ali (ra), do you think
he would teach Ali(ra) to say 'Ya Ali, Ya Ali' ??
Its definitely Fake.

[Chooriwrocafn]

until you dont recite the dua your self you cant say its wrong or etc.

brotehr the first problem is, u proof ur claim that it is mentioned by prophet(sw) in hadith book then we will say is the dua right or wrong

List of Ijazat of all the Duas, Awrad (Litanies) and Ash’ghaal that was bestowed by Spiritual Inspiration directly into his Heart from the Hearts of his Masha’ikh:
13) Hirze Yamani (also known as Du‘a-e-Saifi Sharif) Again its mentioned in these big wali times and tariqa dua e saifi.

that means it wasnt mentioned in any hadith book but transfered from Amr´s heart to Zayd´s heart?

The last part of Dua e saifi consists of Nad e ali which has words like “ Ya Ali , Ya Ali , Ya Abu Turab”.

thats how shias fed their lie´s in fake tariqats. anyone dare to recite "ya Abu bakr, ya Abu bakr, ya Siddiq".

What a mission of shia fabricators where they claim prophet(sw) did dua with such wrods and some muslim believed in this!

[induffike]

Brother NazimKhanOwaisi,

You know the main problem with this dua is that It is attributed to Rasool Allah .

There is a hadith that whoever lies on Rasool Allah should make his place in HELL.

If the dua contains no shirk and you say it is advised by buzurgs of the chain then we can accept it but would not be a great fan because we have Masnoon duas.

hope you understand.

[unlomarma]

The 'Ya 'Ali' part is not in this version: http://www.ghrib.net/vb/showthread.php?t=14360&page=1

[paypaltoegold1]

Isn't that enough proof that it is a fake Dua. If 'supposedly' our Beloved Rasoolullah taught this Dua to Ali (ra), do you think
he would teach Ali(ra) to say 'Ya Ali, Ya Ali' ??
Its definitely Fake.

Excellent

[Asianunta]

Brother NazimKhanOwaisi,

You know the main problem with this dua is that It is attributed to Rasool Allah .

There is a hadith that whoever lies on Rasool Allah should make his place in HELL.

If the dua contains no shirk and you say it is advised by buzurgs of the chain then we can accept it but would not be a great fan because we have Masnoon duas.

hope you understand.

Sheikh,

I am just curious; are you inclined towards deobandis and think good of them? Will you be as strict on them if you found out that they resort to same sort of things, where actions and duas are attributed to the Prophet, peace be upon him, without any link? Will you also also say that they should find their places in hell? Or will you try to explain out things?