[gogFloark]

Well first of all I'm sorry if I posted this in the wrong section. If it's in the wrong section can somebody move it for me?

Okay I've been thinking about buying a APBT for a long time. I was hoping that somebody would be able to point me to a good breeder. I'm hoping for a dog that would do well in dock jumping/diving and maybe weight pulling, but on the other hand I'm also looking for a good companion.

One of the places I looked at was Caragan Kennel. I loved the fact that many people like that place, but can you recommend me to another kennel?

What about kennels that doesn't breed dogs for showing? Just a companion?

Thanks a bunch

[alias]

Since I can't edit anymore

And where did you get your dog?

[HexcewlyRette]

I would say that, unless you were really interested in confirmation showing, there are many shelter dogs that can do everything you mention. I do understand wanting to get a dog from a good breeder though as it is what I plan to do when I get my SBT.

I'd start by talking to breeders with dogs you like the look of and are in your price range. For me, the reason to go to a breeder is for the health and temperament testing they do along with proving their dogs by competing. You'll pay more but that's the point! I would find out what health testing they have done for their dogs, why they bred the litter, what their plans are, etc. Do some research yourself to find out the most important items that need to be tested for in the breed. If I'm paying for a dog from a breeder I would want to have their hips and elbows certified (especially if I was looking for a sport dog). If there are any known medical problems in the breed I'd want to see testing to prove the dog isn't a carrier. I'd also be more inclined to get a pup from dogs who have been certified through the ATTS (American Temperament Test Society). This isn't a test you practice for - it puts dogs in different situations and sees how they recover from stress and confrontation. I find it to be a great tool to show the stability of a dog.


Jet came from a shelter - he was a failed foster and is a good dog. Our great dane was a gift from a friend through a breeder. He's definitely pet quality but his parents were health tested and have great temperaments. Molli, our border collie mix, was a CL adoption. My next dog, be it a great dane or staffordshire bull terrier, will come from a quality breeder because I want as long as possible with the dane and plan to do sports with the SBT.

[Enladalusange]

Yes I love me my shelter dogs Well...from rescues, but kinda the same thing. There are amazing dogs from there, but I don't know if they'll end up having some kind of medical problems in the future so I honestly don't want to pay the medical bill for that. I mean I still love them and chances are I'll still get one, but I also want a show dog (so I want the best I can afford)

Unfortunately I don't know any breeders to talk too. I don't have connections there yet. I do have connections to the rescues, but they would shoot me if I ask to buy a dog instead of adopting one
I also like the fact that most of the breeders that I know (for doberman...I used to want a dobe) have contracts that would benefit both the breeder and the buyer. There are health claims that they make and "insurance" thing that if the dog dies for a reason they claimed that the dog doesn't have they would replace the dog. (how do you replace a dog since that dog already stole my heart )
Huh I never heard of the ATTS. What type of things do they do? It sounds stressful. I will be making sure all of my dogs pass the CGC though. That you can practice for

Lol I love that word failed foster. It brings joy to me. That's what I want too. I want a dog that will be a PET (so chances are I'll adopt for that one), but the other I want to show so I want a dog that comes from a sound background and who's parent's are known for w/e sport that I want my dog to do.

Anyways how would I start looking for good reputable breeders? Is it better to buy in my area or to buy from anywhere and ship the dog up to where I live?

[xT0U3UGh]

I'd start going to shows where the dog of your choice can be found and if you see a dog you like, start talking to the owner.

The ATTS test is only stressful in that they introduce your dog to things they may not be used to. For the whole test you have your dog on a flat collar and leash. You don't correct or direct the dog though you can offer encouragement if they hesitate. You meet a stranger that ignores the dog, one that gives the dog LOTS of attention, loud noises from behind screens, walking over fencing, etc. Here's a video of my friend's deaf pitbull taking the test. While Cow does great cause she can't hear a lot of the things you get the idea of what goes on. It's really interesting to see the guardian breeds take the test and watch their reaction to the "crazy person" at the end of the test.

[ergyuu]

Thanks. I'll start attending the shows and striking up a convo w/ the owners then.

The way I see the ATTS test in the video...it doesn't look too bad. Cow looked well behaved and mostly ignored everything The crazy person in the end scares me. I think my stress would definitely scare my dog.

[9TWSg835]

I have found one of the best sources for breeder referrals to be someone that works for one of the sister clinics my boss used to own. (She is also an AKC judge and breeds and shows Dobes) Make friends with some of the staff at your local Veterinary office that you know show or do activities with their own dogs. You just might be surprised

[xIuvyAuT]

Thanks. I'll start attending the shows and striking up a convo w/ the owners then.

The way I see the ATTS test in the video...it doesn't look too bad. Cow looked well behaved and mostly ignored everything The crazy person in the end scares me. I think my stress would definitely scare my dog.

That's the point One thing they do have is a leash to attach your dog to (at least the one we attended did) so that you don't have to worry about holding the dog if they get really excited. The test is to see if your dog reacts to the "aggressive stranger" and, more importantly, how long it takes them to recover from the experience. It's a good tool to see the stability of a dog put in unusual circumstances. The one thing to not do is practice for the test since that takes the surprise out of it and doesn't give you a good idea of how your dog will react. Your dog also has to be mature (18 months or older, I think) before they can take the test so that you don't frighten the youngsters. If you get a chance to see one done I would highly recommend checking it out.

[BrainTop]

Thank you. So here's what I have so far

1. Go to the shows and ask around. I feel that most of those breeders would require that I have already owned a Pit before. I have never owned one, but have volunteered before and been around them (would that count I wonder)

2. Make friends with the vets. They might know more than they're telling

[WUlcN1Rz]

The best way to find the breeder suited for your purpose is to go to the events you wish to participate in with your future dog. Even among the same purebred dog breed there are going to be many differences in the "final product" depending on who you go with.

Be ready for any decent breeder to not only talk to you and answer your questions - but to expect some answers from YOU as to why you are the right person to have dogs from their stock.

Ahead of time think of what is a drop dead list of must haves and deal breakers for you.

I know this is obviously the most simple example but pretend you were at the point of trying to decide if an entire breed was a good fit in your life - if "dog aggression" came up high on your list of "deal breakers" than the American Pit Bull Terrier would not be a good fit for you as a breed. This same logic that can be applied at the breed level can be applied at the bloodline level. All dogs are individuals but some breeding programs and bloodlines tend to produce certain patterns of behavior - be it energy level, drive, dog aggression, personality, etc.

[Izzy]

I'm not really worried about the questions. I know what my answers are going to be already. I also have questions that I would ask that would help me determine if I would want their dogs or not.

Lol if I was afraid of owning a dog that could become DA I wouldn't have chosen this breed I have already done my research about this breed and spent time with them. I love a dog with a medium-high energy level. I enjoy my exercise. I don't need a couch potato.

Thanks for your help. You actually gave me more ideas about what type of questions to ask.

Btw does anybody know of a way to test the litter? Like I know that I can see who's more aggressive and who's more submissive by watching them play and interact and I know that if I play with them I can also tell more about their characters, but does anybody know like "tests" that I could do?

For example the rolling the puppy onto its back for 30 second to test dominance.

[lollypop]

Yes I love me my shelter dogs Well...from rescues, but kinda the same thing. There are amazing dogs from there, but I don't know if they'll end up having some kind of medical problems in the future so I honestly don't want to pay the medical bill for that. I mean I still love them and chances are I'll still get one, but I also want a show dog (so I want the best I can afford)

I just wanted to say don't let that be your sole motivator for getting a dog from a breeder. Even the most well bred dogs can still get sick and can still develop health problems as they age. You take that gamble regardless of getting a well bred dog from a breeder or a mutt from a rescue. The health testing simply screens to make sure the dog is not a genetic carrier for specific diseases. Obviously if the parents are carriers for a specific genetic disorder, there is a good chance that chance would be passed on to the pups and those pups have an increased chance of getting that specific conditions. Which is why yes health testing is very important to help ensure that those genetic conditions aren't passed on. Doesn't mean the dog CAN'T or WON'T get sick at one point or another in its life. Regardless you need to have some sort of health fund set aside for your dog regardless of the dogs breeding. Yes by going through a good breeder who health tests you do have a better chances of having an overall healthier dog but shit still happens. With any living creature, you need to be prepared for health issues. Especially as they age.

I'm just saying, don't think you will avoid all health issues, all dogs get sick from time to time. And it would be a miracle for any dog (or human) to go their entire life without developing some kind of health issues. There are some conditions, illnesses, diseases that just happen and can't be avoided. Especially during aging.

Just keep that in mind, that's all.

[VIAGRA-VIAGRA]

Don't worry. I don't skimp on vet care. Muff goes to the vet once a yr for his check up. He gets all the shots/medical care he needs.

I'm not trying to buy a superdog. I just want a dog with more guarantees that some of the issues are bred out. Plus a dog that comes from a known breeder who's known for w/e sport I'll choose will give my dog a better chance at doing well in that sport.

Now I love me my foster/rescues dog as much as a dog from a breeder, but in my case where I'm looking for a dog for showing I would want to buy a dog from the breeder. If I was looking for a pet I would definitely just adopt.

[Uojeyak]

Lol if I was afraid of owning a dog that could become DA I wouldn't have chosen this breed I have already done my research about this breed and spent time with them..

Just to clarify, even though I thought I made myself perfectly clear - the statement about DA was as I exactly quoted "a simple example". I never stated it applied to you or your situation in particular, in fact I never assumed you would think I was implying as much since you have already chosen the breed you want and my example was purposely backed out to the breed level. All I was saying was make yourself a list, know exactly what you want and don't want, as it will help you in selecting a bloodline much as it no doubt helped you decide what breed you wanted.

Testing a litter - its really a crapshoot, puppy personality doesn't always equate to adult dog personality. You could choose the most outgoing pup of the litter and end up with the shyest dog of the litter when they mature. Some folks liken picking a puppy to sticking your hand in a bag of marbles. Other folks put more stock in its importance. I would say at the most look for glaring faults - you want a stable confident pup. Don't worry about dominance rolling or anything silly like that.

Good luck!!

[maonnjtip]

Alrighty. That's what I thought, but I also wanted others to know that I do know my breed and that I'm not just choosing it to be walking around going "Yeah I'm a bada** cuz I got myself a killer." or anything dumb like that.

Whichever kennel I choose my pup from I think I'll talk to the owner about the pups and what I want and chances are they'll be able to kinda point me in the right direction.

Thanks.

So I have a list of kennels right now. I won't add links or anything, but could you tell me if you've heard anything good or bad about them?

1. Caragan Kennel
2. Kayo Kennel
3. Ro-Ki Reds

What I want
1. a stable dog
2. medium-high energy
3. drive...uh I haven't decided what I wanted yet
4. color = anything, but completely white
5. good health

Is there anything else I forgot that I should be looking for?

[ViaplyVuple]

[QUOTE=gigglymonkey12;1244268]Btw does anybody know of a way to test the litter?{QUOTE]

A good breeder will most likely have one picked out for your situation and want you want to do with the dog.

I don't think you need to get too complicated about what to look for if you DO get to see the litter -- avoid any shyness or unwillngness to interact with you. Pluses are a dog that is constantly under your feet, wants to engage you with games and likes to be held, not necessarily on his back. (Avoid the "alpha roll").

Something I really like to see is a pup you can hold in your arms on his back and will gaze at your face as you goochy-goo to him! And, it's not a total fail if he'll do the gazing but doesn't want to be on his back.


Carla

[jokiruss]

Don't worry. I don't skimp on vet care. Muff goes to the vet once a yr for his check up. He gets all the shots/medical care he needs.

I'm not trying to buy a superdog. I just want a dog with more guarantees that some of the issues are bred out. Plus a dog that comes from a known breeder who's known for w/e sport I'll choose will give my dog a better chance at doing well in that sport.

Now I love me my foster/rescues dog as much as a dog from a breeder, but in my case where I'm looking for a dog for showing I would want to buy a dog from the breeder. If I was looking for a pet I would definitely just adopt.

Okay just making sure that that wasn't your primary motivator. For example I had a very very well bred poodle years and years ago. Health tested. Came from good breeding stock. However when all was said and done, she still died of kidney failure. Her last few weeks were very very expensive and we ultimately had to put her down because ultimately her kidneys eventually did fail. But she was very very old too. That is all I was saying was as they age, ultimately they will develop their share of health issues. Regardless of breeding.

Good to know though you are prepared for that and you keep your dogs regularly vetted.

[ssyyyrruho]

Alrighty. Thanks for the time and your patience.

Even though some breeders are going to choose a puppy that'll fit my situation I hope that they also take into consideration what I want. Yeah I want a puppy that'll be trying to win my attention instead of the puppy that is huddle in the corner.

Of course. I always say, "If you can't afford the vet bills you don't have the rights to own that dog."

[br`lorance]

Kayo is where I would look first if I wanted an AmStaff. I'm in love with her dogs, especially Sako who's daddy is Cash.

Looking Ro-Ki I like their website but have no direct knowledge of the dogs. Still, I'd definitely look into them more if I was looking for an APBT. The same with Caragan. I like what I see and would investigate more if I was in the market.

I think you've got a great start to finding what you want!

[Lillie_Steins]

Lol I was looking at Kayo and I saw on the puppy page a face with the name Sako and I'm thinking...huh look's like Kady's dog, but nah must be a coincidence. I should ask Kady about Kayo then. A nice good reference so I can learn about the breeder. Thanks for telling me

Yeah I'm loving all three as of this moment, but until they answer the email I sent none of them are on my list yet.

A lot of the kennels I find when I type in APBT are usually bullies XXL or they say we have the rare blue nose XXL bullies. *sigh*

I've also found storytime kennels. I'm so sad that this is the last year that there breeding though. It looks like it would be an amazing place to buy from.
Oh and what about countryman's kennel. Has anybody heard/experienced anything with their dogs?