Actually humans DO test themselves genetically when a woman becomes pregnant they do a full panel of genetic testing if the mother allows they sample their blood for genetic defaults such as CP....this lady sounds weird

Agreed. http://www.pitbull-chat.com/images/s...oodposting.gif

I can understand why a responsible breeder may not want to test for everything under the sun. However, if they want to be considered reputable, they should at least test for a couple of the health issues that their breed is known for.

I tend to agree with atheist on both his posts in this thread... And to the OP.. How much is she charging for her pups? If its 200 - 500 dollars you should expect little to no genetic testing has been done.. But if your talking about forking out 1500-2000 dollars for a proven show quality dog then you might be warranted to ask such questions.

I am still wondering how she found my thread so quickly.. My posting and her email reply about it were only an hour apart. Maybe she's a member LOL

yea mine refuses, i have to pick him up and take him out and he looks at me like im killing him, then will come in and hide under the covers for awhile lol

keep looking till you find a good breeder, i have a dachshund also, i do have to say they are sweet loving dogs, thou you cant get them out in the rain http://www.pitbull-chat.com/images/smilies/lol.gif and one thing to look for, make sure the parents arent yappy, cause these guys can get yappy i heard, thou mine has only barked 3 times, and read up on there back problems and warning signs for those, i know you probably know these things http://www.pitbull-chat.com/images/smilies/smile.png, anyways good luck with findnig a breeder, and when you pick out a puppy i want to see pics http://www.pitbull-chat.com/images/smilies/smile.png, oh and they LOVE to sleep under the covers

When I received that email, any plans I had for getting one of her puppies circled the drain. She emailed me shortly after I made this thread, with a link to this thread, accusing me of publicizing her email to make fun of her. My only reply was telling her I was glad she found this website because it has a lot of useful information on it.

There would be NO confusion in my eyes. The "Breeder" is trying to sell you a load of bullhocky! Be picky! Search for a breeder until you get the answers you are looking for.

Agreed.. I only asked her if she done any testing for a couple specific defects and she began lecturing how wanting a "perfect" puppy is unrealistic and that life is life and nothing is perfect, lol http://www.pitbull-chat.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.png

I tried to explain I am not aiming for a perfect puppy, and that investing the time and money into having some tests done is not to make "perfect" offspring but healthy ones. But of course she knows that, she's just beating around the bush about the real reason she doesn't do any testing. http://www.pitbull-chat.com/images/smilies/lol.gif

Here's an idea. You asked, they said no, so don't get a puppy from them. It's pretty simple if you ask me. All the bullshit back and forth is useless dribble. Nobody forces anybody to buy a puppy from a breeder they don't approve of.

Were you being serious about not getting them out in the rain? LOL because mine absolutely will not go outside to pee (or for any reason) when it is even sprinkling the rain! & yes I will post pictures in the near (or far) future, depending on my luck. http://www.pitbull-chat.com/images/smilies/smile.png

So I am curious, who pays for genetic testing of a breeders animal? The OFA website has a long list of genetic conditions that can be tested for but what does it cost a breeder to get all of these genetic conditions tested?

After looking at the OFA website I must say that it seems to me for any genetic test to be of value to a potential dog purchaser, I suppose you would first need to research every condition known to occur in a particular breed with any frequency, then ask the breeder if they have certified results of each DNA test for that particular group of genetic anomalies for it to have any real value.

Do they test every dog or just the dam and sire? Can a dam and sire who are free of the gene for say hip dysplasia still have a puppy with hip dysplasia? Frankly if it were me, I would just find a breeder by recommendation who has produced lots of great dogs without problems and has plenty of satisfied customers you can speak with.

People who need certified laboratory genetic tests to pick out a dog seem a little anal or obsessive IMO. Jeez your buying a dog not developing a country. Spending money on genetic testing seems OK for a breeder looking to invest in top quality breeding stock but for a pet owner? Especially since the external risks to dog ownership far exceed the internal genetic risks. Other than a certified test that can guarantee for example that a dog cannot possibly develop a genetic condition which your are specifically trying to ensure against, what real value is it. I guess that if you can guarantee my puppy would never get crippled from a genetic hip problem that might be worth paying a little more for but it is probably more likely that same puppy is at higher risk of getting hit by a car or something and winding up dead or crippled.

Millions of mutts out there live happy and healthy lives with no need for DNA testing. Breeders do play with nature and therefore may want to take precautions but I would guess that if for every breeder who said their dogs are DNA tested, if the customer demanded to see certifiable documentation, many would find it is just a crock, simplya marketing tool high priced breeders use to help justify the prices of their dogs. Some people actually believe the more you pay the more you get.

Below is the OFA info on the thyroid testing for example, read it carefully and you will see that it really means nothing other that it can only determine if the dog currently is OK. So if you bought a puppy and the breeder said it has had a thyroid panel, great, but what good would that be after the dog is a year old?
OFA Thyroid Procedures


Purpose

To identify those dogs that are phenotypically normal for breeding programs and to gather data on the genetic disease autoimmune thyroiditis
Examination and Classification

Each dog is to be examined by an attending veterinarian and have a serum sample sent to an OFA approved laboratory for testing according to the enclosed application and general information instructions. The laboratory fee will be determined by the approved laboratory. All OFA forms and the OFA fee are submitted with the sample to the approved lab. Check with the referral laboratory for special sample handling and tests for registry purposes.
Certification

A breed database number of will be issued to all dogs found to be normal at 12 months of age. Ages will be used in the certification process since the classification can change as the dog ages and the autoimmune disease progresses. It is recommended that reexamination occur at ages 2,3,4,6, and 8 years.
Preliminary Evaluation

Evaluation of dogs under 12 months of age can be performed for private use of the owner since the few dogs are already positive at that age. However, certification will not be possible at that age. Dogs with Autoimmune Thyroiditis

All data, whether normal or abnormal is to be submitted for purposes of completeness. There is no OFA fee for entering an abnormal evaluation of the thyroid into the data bank. Information on results determined to be positive or equivocal will not be made public without explicit written permission of the owner. Thyroid Abnormalities

Thyroid abnormalities fall into several categories—two types will be defined by the registry.

• Autoimmune Thyroiditis
• Idiopathically Reduced Thyroid Function

Autoimme thyroiditis is known to be heritable
Equivocal Results

Those dogs with laboratory results that are questionable, therefore not definitive, will be considered as equivocal. It is recommended that the test the repeated in three to six months.


My conclusion is this stuff is way over rated.

The breeder pays for all genetic testing, which run hundreds to thousands of dollars.

IMO, it's worth the money. Hypothyroidism is genetically linked, as is hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, and a very large number of other disorders. If you don't think that it's worth the money, then don't do it. But I wouldn't purchase a dog that did not have any genetic testing done. IMO, that's worse than getting a shelter mutt; at least my crapshoot would be cheap.

Hahaha mine is the same way about snow, too. He will barely step onto the front porch, which is sheltered..

Actually, yes, many people do. For example, in the Jewish community, it is irresponsible to have children without testing for Tay-Sachs disease. Most parents of jewish descent that are purposefully trying to have children will test for this disease.

I didn't even get far enough to ask her about price - I asked about the testing first.

IMO I think it is worth it for a breeder to invest the time and money to have testing done, if their goal is to produce healthy specimens of the breed, that is.. Having a top of the line show quality dog isn't my priority, but NOT giving money to someone who just breeds dogs that don't have "obvious faults" as she put it, is. There aren't any adoptable Dachshunds in my area but I think I'm just going to wait patiently until there is... I'm moving out on my own soon and I don't want to take my Dachshund with me because he is the family dog, and is VERY attached to my parents. I love them and have been looking for a while for one available for adoption, and also for responsible breeders.. Sigh I think I'm going to have to make a 4 hour drive to my state's Dachshund rescue.

Sigh...
 

Hello all..

Recently I have been in contact with someone who I considered buying a Dachshund puppy from. They seemed totally responsible and competent up until I asked if they done any screening for Glaucoma, Cataracts, etc prior to breeding their dogs and they replied with:

"No, I'm sorry, but I do not do any genetic testing on the dogs. My retort is usually "Well, you had kids, did YOU do any genetic testing on yourself?" lololol I think people are expecting "lifetime perfection" when they purchase a puppy, and that is just not (I think) reasonable. Where there is life, there is going to be problems, and genetic testing (I feel) is not going to do a heck of a lot to prevent them. Of course, I do NOT agree with breeders breeding dogs who have genetic faults. But life is not perfect - it's just life. And I find it ironic that most of the breeders who claim to do genetic testing know absolutely zilch about genetics.
Our knowledge of genetics today, I think, is still in it's infancy - as I try to explain on the FAQ genetics page of the website. Certain things happen, that shouldn't happen - according to the genetics as are understood today. For instance, a dog should have a dominant gene or not - there should not be "part of a gene" present - but breeders can tell that offspring without the dominant gene have a telltale bit of it.

I think we've barely scratched the surface regarding genetic knowledge. And I think that "genetic purity" is not just a myth, but often used as a false sense of "the warm & fuzzies" as I like to call them. I remember a chain of pet stores that used to be called "Dr. Pet" and they claimed that all of their dogs were xrayed and proven to be clear of hip dysplasia before sold. Hip dysplasia often doesn't show up on a large or giant breed until the dog is 2 years of age, and any testing done prior to that is worthless.

I do think that "genetic purity" can be misused to "redirect" focus away from the important things - kind of like a dog food manufacturer claiming to use "pheasant" or "duck" in a poorly digestible kibble.

I look at DCIS and the PSA testing and see how the misguiding and mis-informing the doctors are - and the tests only now are being questioned by the medical community itself. Mankind can find minute (genetic, if you will) flaws - but that does NOT mean that the person (or dog) will 100% come down with that affliction. The PSA testing (for prostate cancer) and mammograms which diagnosed DCIS as cancer (when it isn't), have devastating (and completely unnecessary) consequences for the testees.

Puppies are like children, each and every one is special and deserves a wonderful life. And breeders should be knowledgeable about genetics and not breed obvious faults. (And I think the same should be done with humans....but that's another rant.) To expect "genetic perfection" is an unreasonable expectation with life - and I think one that leads down a dangerous path.

I fully understand your wanting a puppy who has been genetically tested, but mine are not - and never will be.

I do, however, understand that more and more breeders are getting on the genetic testing bandwagon - and I'm sure you will have no problem finding a puppy whom a breeder had tested."


...I am a little in the dark on this one. In the first paragraph she says, "Of course, I do NOT agree with breeders breeding dogs who have genetic faults." Yet she does no testing herself to even find out if her dogs have genetic faults?? Uggghh I'm just ranting I know.