[tuszit]

I can't stand hypocrites. Good god.
So today... or I guess yesterday since it's 3am, I was at SAR training. This was my first time with most of the people in this group. So I have Bonnie in her crate and it's getting hot in the truck so I hook up my leash to her prong since there's a bunch of other dogs there and I don't know how she'll react to them, especially since there was a really DA shepherd there. This woman comes up to me and tells me I need to take the prong off my dog, those are harmful, crutches for the trainer, and not welcome. I didn't really question it, I figure it might be a rule of some kind, so I take the prong off, if Bonnie gets nuts I'll just put her back in her crate. Later on, I see this same woman yanking the SHIT out of her shepherd with a choke chain. I mean lifting the dog off his goddamn feet, it was absurd. WTF? So my prong collar is a crutch?

Does anyone ever deal with folks like this when they use prongs/choke chains? A is so bad but B is just dandy?

[LICraig]

Yes, I was told once when I lived in Ontario that someone would call SPCA if they saw my shepherd in a prong collar ever again, her husband had thier little ankle biter on a choke chain.

[VUzgOhgv]

It's commonly accepted by folk that prong collars are evil torture devices but choke chains are completely humane and harmless!

Yet another reason why folk are stupid as shit.

[tuszit]

I can't friggin stand that crap.

I'm having her in her prong next time. About 3/4 of the people there had their dogs on a choke chain. I'll probably be reamed for it but I don't care.

[forexsoft]

Nothing wrong with a prong if there is a dog in the crowd that can HURT your dog, you need control.

I've actually had something similar to this happen to me. I was at Petsmart talking out loud with a store associate about our pit mix Tyson, who pulled really bad. He suggested a prong or martingale collar. The lady next to us, who had two very large rottweilers on choke chains, interrupted and explained that she thought prong collars were animal abuse, and that I should be ashamed of myself as an animal owner if I decided to get one. I just said "Uhhh, okay." And let her leave. I'm not really confrontational. Well, on the way up to the register, I saw her walking with her Rotts, and she was yanking them both so hard with the choke chains that their front feet were coming off the ground. Hypocrites are retarded, indeed.

It's basically the same thing if used properly. A quick and easy way to correct your dog. They don't like it, but it's not harming them. Stupid people.

[VUzgOhgv]

Oh, and P.S. ...

So today... or I guess yesterday since it's 3am,

I vote it's still today, if you haven't gone to sleep yet

[tuszit]

I like the prong collar better. I never even need to correct Bonnie. She feels that prong collar on and knows it's time for business. I can't imagine that a prong collar would work the same. They don't fit snugly (they have to fit over the head after all) so they don't have that light pressure on the dog's neck at all times. In fact most people I see using them have them so loose that if the dog lowered its head, the collar would slip off.

---------- Post added at 04:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 AM ----------

Oh, and P.S. ...



I vote it's still today, if you haven't gone to sleep yet

LOL. That's how I feel. It doesn't "feel" like Monday yet!

[VUzgOhgv]

Monday?! When?! Oh look... it WILL be Monday, you're right! How quaint. lol

But yeah, I am in favour of "It's not the next day until you go to sleep then wake up and start a new day".. otherwise, I'd be far more confused than I already am with the weird way people do things lol

[tuszit]

If I followed that philosophy then it'd be Friday. lol

[lE3l6Lgn]

What a stupid bitch. She has a go at you but her dog has a choke collar and she's yanking the dog off his/her feet.. That pisses me off.

[VUzgOhgv]

If I followed that philosophy then it'd be Friday. lol

Naps don't count! Naps are included in the same day. It has to be an actual full amount of sleep lol Though I can't tell you the number of times I've woken up from pregnant naps thinking it was a whole new day...

[tuszit]

Naps don't count! Naps are included in the same day. It has to be an actual full amount of sleep lol Though I can't tell you the number of times I've woken up from pregnant naps thinking it was a whole new day...

Reminds me of one time when I took a nap after school when I was a 7th or 8th grader. The neighbor came over at dusk and I swear I thought it was dawn. I was still half asleep. He wanted to go see some movie and I said "Dude, I have to get ready for school." He was like WTF lol! I didn't find out until after he left that it was evening and not time for school.

[SetSnonejog]

Did you say anything to the woman when you saw her with a choke chain...as in letting her know that a prong is a MUCH safer tool to use than a choke chain, which in fact actually can be harmful if used improperly and overall is a much less humane method of correction??

Next time I would tell them that when they said no prongs you assumed the group only allowed positive training methods; but then when you saw everyone with choke chains you realized the majority was in fact relying on correction based training methods and that being the case it is well known that the prong is the safer, and in fact gentler alternative.

[tuszit]

I didn't want to say anything to her because apparently she's one of the leading trainers in the group. I didn't want to set up Bonnie for failure by making an enemy of someone who could be judging her future trails.

[forexsoft]

Sad face indeed. D:

[SetSnonejog]

I didn't want to say anything to her because apparently she's one of the leading trainers in the group. I didn't want to set up Bonnie for failure by making an enemy of someone who could be judging her future trails.

I see your point; but you are probably going to have to have an ideological confrontation with her at some point.

Maybe play dumb; tell her you researched collars after your discussion and based on what you found *hands her a stack of printed papers* you are not comfortable switching to a potentially harmful training method; when the one you were using appears to be safer and while definitely gentler...is sufficient for your dog.

I did a quick google and here's a start:

http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/vie...of-collars.htm


Choke ChainsThis is the common name of the metal training slip collar. Choke chains are still used as the primary training tool in many "traditional (jerk & praise)" training methods - when the dog is given a yank if it does not obey a command. A study done in Germany showed that choke chains cause a great deal of neck, back, and tracheal injuries to dogs.


Prong or Pinch CollarsThese are used for the same purposes as the choke collar, to "correct" the dog by yanking on its neck if it does not comply. The prong collar is actually far safer than the choker - the study in Germany mentioned above also evaluated prong collars, and found no neck/back/trachea injuries as a result of correct use of this collar.

[tuszit]

Thanks Jazzy, that's really good info. I'll look at some more sites and try to print some stuff out. I'm not going to see this particular group again for another month.

[endulundaSauh]

I would use (and have) the prong over a choke cause I have seen too many good dogs ruined by chokes. These poor dogs pulling theor owners down the street on a choke hacking while my dog is hheled and sitting right by me in a prong. They just get my dogs attention quicker. Then when they have the idea that the collar is not going to let them get away with anything, I can use a flat collar and they still obey.

Most people dont even take the time to train their dogs anymore.

[tuszit]

What really gets me is when people say (like the trainer, but I hear it a lot) a prong is a crutch... What the hell do you think a choke is?! And I don't consider it a crutch, I consider it a safety net...

[lrtoinbert]

I see your point; but you are probably going to have to have an ideological confrontation with her at some point.

Maybe play dumb; tell her you researched collars after your discussion and based on what you found *hands her a stack of printed papers* you are not comfortable switching to a potentially harmful training method; when the one you were using appears to be safer and while definitely gentler...is sufficient for your dog.

I did a quick google and here's a start:

http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/vie...of-collars.htm


Choke ChainsThis is the common name of the metal training slip collar. Choke chains are still used as the primary training tool in many "traditional (jerk & praise)" training methods - when the dog is given a yank if it does not obey a command. A study done in Germany showed that choke chains cause a great deal of neck, back, and tracheal injuries to dogs.


Prong or Pinch CollarsThese are used for the same purposes as the choke collar, to "correct" the dog by yanking on its neck if it does not comply. The prong collar is actually far safer than the choker - the study in Germany mentioned above also evaluated prong collars, and found no neck/back/trachea injuries as a result of correct use of this collar.

^^^Great post.

Before we knew better we used a choke chain. Then someone introduced the prong collar to us, and just based on the look I didn't like it. Somewhere along the line someone suggested to me putting both on my leg (one at a time) and yanking on them. Then I'd see how bad (or not) they were. By far the choke chain hurt worse, and I couldn't imagine that on the neck of a short haired dog...granted I know they're dogs, and their pain tolerance is different (I'm a bit of a sissy also)...but still. I could just see all of the damage being done having that one focal point of pressure. Whereas with the prong, first like you said-it was in a constant state of...touching my leg and then if I pulled/yanked it the pressure was applied evenly. Uncomfortable-maybe, but not painful.