[rorsvierwelia]

Long story short

Sai was a mangie mutt when I got her, literally. She was about 4mos old, covered in feces and urine, was very under weight, had mange, and was so scared of people she would crawl to people then turn over on her back and pee on her self.

It took a lot of work dealing with her and getting her trained, however, due to her past abuse there was only so much I could do.

When ever we go on walks and she feels anyone has entered her personal space, she puts on a "show" to keep people and dogs away from her. But anyone who knows dogs would know that she's actually scared. She barks from the side, ears back, tail tucked, slowly backing between my legs and shacking. If anyone does come closer, she either tries to run away or sits in between my legs and pees.

I've been working with her and slowly building her confidence as well as introducing her to new experiences.

Well todays walk was different from any other! We were walking around the complex as usual for our evening walk when I saw someone and their dog walking up ahead of us.

Sai's usual reaction is to run between my legs, wait for some reassurance, then continue on the walk (she doesnt act up the way she used to really), but this time wasnt the same. As soon as Sai saw the other dog, her stance tensed up (the same stance as when she see's a rabbit lol). Then she actually went to run towards the other dog, but of course I had a good hand on the leash and already had my heals dug in and ready (this happened so freakin fast) so when she reached the end of the lead she then lunged and started to bark at the other dog! Head up straight forward looking at the other dog, tail straight up, ears perked.... I mean she was ready to go!!!

I've never seen Sai like this before! I then got Sai's attention back on me and we continued our walk. But as we kept walking, I couldnt help but to have a smile on my face and it almost brought a tear to my eye.

I remember when she was scared to go outside and would go out just to pee and then pull and cry back to the house because she was so scared.

I mean of course now I have to teach her how to properly act like that outside like with my older dog, but I'm just glad that she's built up the confidence that she would even try that you know.

She kind of reminded me of Tweek when she was younger. Now I know DA or HA isnt a trait to be proud of, and by no means am I encouraging her to be DA or HA... I'm proud of the fact that the fear wasnt there. She's gone through a lot to go out side and actually enjoy being outside and on car rides and running and playing. So to see her get this far... WELL DAMN IT!!! IT FELT GOOD!!!

And once we continued on our walk she looked at me like "I did good mom!" and I just rubbed her head and said "You're such a silly dog"

[vNQmO2BF]

congrats!

[clitlyphype]

congratulations, you have to be proud of yourself too of being able to sort this out

[doctorzlo]

Congratulations.Did you name her after a samurai`s short sword?

[QQQQQ-Trek]

Congrats! It is a good feeling isnt it? My Havanna is gradually growing out of her stranger shyness as well. She doesnt turn and run to the BR or down the hall at all anymore. She does still bark though.

[Fosavoa]

I hate to be the turd in the punch bowl here, but Sai's new behaviour could be a fear induced defensive reaction. She may have figured out cowering & looking for reassurance doesn't make what she perceives as a "threat" go away fast enough, so maybe a big ol' threat display will. I doubt this was true courage. I could be totally wrong, but it sounds more like a fear-induced bluff to me. Dogs who are bluffing can display both defensive & offensive body postures. Some will use even use displays like many mentioned by the OP - stiff front legs, ears foward & advancing toward the "threat." This is done to make themselves appear bigger & badder & make the "threat" go away. Kind of like the frightened cat who puffs up all his hair & sidles up on a threat for example. I myself would consider it much more of a breakthrough if Sai would have reacted in a calm & collected manner. Defensive aggression/fear aggression is not good & can end up in a lawsuit.

JMHO.

Blessings ...

[poonnassunlix]

I will be the second turd but I agree with ABK

[rorsvierwelia]

THERE ARE NO TURDS HERE!!!!

i actually agree with that and considered this as a possibility which is why i said she still needs more training. by no means is this new behavior the behavior of choice.

but overall i am seeing her confidence build and with more time i'm hoping to get her to the point that tweek is to were we can go for a walk and walk right past another dog with out any reaction (one day this WILL HAPPEN! i wont give up on her)

but me knowing my dog, i see her level of confidence increasing slowly but surely and it was nice to see that even if it was fear, she's learned that when scared she doesnt have to hide and pee, that she can stand up and say "lemme lone!" (that's how imagine she speaks in my head lol)

so now worries abk and patch. i will keep on her until she's were she needs to be and never feel like a turd for giving it how it is. people are too sensitive sometimes

[Fosavoa]

My dear, no one was calling you a turd. The old phrase "turd in a punchbowl" is used when one voices a POV unpopular with others. That's why I said "I hate to be the turd in a punchbowl." You were getting praise & congrats & I knew you would not like what I had to say, so I said I was the "turd in the punchbowl."

That being said, Sai's new "lemme get it" attitude does not mean it is a display of confidence. Plenty of fearful/defensive dogs show the same display & with the background you gave on Sai in this thread I doubt her change of heart is true confidence, but rather a new way to scare people/things away.

Sai may indeed someday lose her fear & with a handler like you who is dedicated to her, willing to work her & not give up, one day she may be quite confident. I just don't think she is now. What you described here sounds more like a threat display to me. But keep working her & she will be fine. Just don't praise her for her newfound "skills," work on her to develop actual confidence, not what I call "kitty-cat confidence" (puff up & hiss!) & she'll be fine eventually!

Also, as a side note, if her shyness is genetic & not a result of circumstance, be prepared to have a dog who is always a "spook." If she is just genetically weak nerved, you can work with her until you are blue in the face, but if the wrong sight/sound/thing hits she may still react negatively. Dogs with weak nerves CAN get to the point where they can behave normally during day-to-day activities, but they will always have to be well managed & supervised at all times.

JMHO. Good luck & keep us updated!

Blessings ...

[RobsShow]

ABK, neekie meant YOU should not call yourself a turd for giving your take on the situation

Anyhow, it would be my reaction as well to see any kind of change as a positive, whether it is desired bahavior or not ... at least is is momentum. You can't steer something in the right direction unless it is moving. I don't know if that's right or not but I can understand your jubilance!

[Fosavoa]

ABK, neekie meant YOU should not call yourself a turd for giving your take on the situation!

Oops! Sorry if I misunderstood!

As for the change, I would much rather see calm & collected behaviour instead of fear &/or defensive aggression. That type of aggression can get a person bitten, a dog killed & an owner sued.

But I do see your point about steering something in the right direction. A very nice anaology indeed. But I would definitely steer AWAY from this new behaviour!

Again, JMHO.

Blessings ...

---------- Post added at 11:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 AM ----------

EDIT: Also, I would not say that Sai is "stupid." She seems to be quite smart - very much so if she can figure out one mode of coping is not working & she is intelligent enough to formulate & then put into action another. Smart puppy!

[rorsvierwelia]

lol yeah, i knew you wasnt calling me a turd. I didnt want you thinking agreed with "you being a turd" just because you didnt give me congrats.

and i still fully agree with you. i know for a fact she's still very much afraid but like buddysmom said, the different behavior means she's not "stuck"

and my little sai baby... lol she's very smart, too smart lol. when she learned that just because the kennel door was closed doesnt mean its locked and when she learned how to open the baby gate i knew she was smart.

i call her stupid because she still acts like a tard, she does crazy things that make me say "oh you're so dumb" like losing her toy on her back (she flipped it up there) and having no clue where it is!!!! its freakin hilarious... she's so silly that i just have to call her stupid lol

but you're right on the ultimate goal on having a calm well behaved dog outside.

as well as the genetic part. i spoke with her vet about that when i 1st got her and she warned me of that as well. so i know she may never be 100% but if she can act outside the way she acts in the house, that'd be awesome

[Friend_Joe]

Some of the best dogs I've had were "mutts" and also, someone's garbage that they threw out.... RIP Sheaba and Maxx. Two of the smartest dogs I have now are Bella and my foster, Cooper... also tossed out like yesterdays news.

Keep working with your pup and it sounds like to me, she's a pretty smart cookie.

Also, always be on your best guard, and never let your guard down.... the instant you do, you'll regret it. Always have both eyes on the dogs, and if you don't have one, invest in a break stick. You may never need it, but better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Dogs are dogs, and they generally don't care much for strange dogs once they reach maturity. This breed especially is well known for dog aggression.... not a fault, just a trait. There's nothing wrong with a dog that doesn't like other dogs, it's just how they are. Kinda like I have brown eyes and can't change it, it is what it is.

[golozhopik]

I know exactly how you feel! Jada is terrified of everything and everyone. The other day a friend stopped over and Jada barked at him as in "Get back away from my mommy". It was nice to see her trying to protect me instead of her running to hide behind me for protection, shaking and scared.
I am trying to slowly introduce her to new people without overloading her. My other dogs would have been corrected immediently for their behavior so I'm not saying that I think its a good thing. It was just nice to see my chicken dog trying to protect me! I think it means we are making progress!!

Congrats! It's nice to see that new found confidence in them isn't it?

[rorsvierwelia]

exactly kuhndogs!!!

i have to discipline her differently then i've ever disciplined any other dog. so yes, to have her stand up instead of hiding is a good change

all she needs is a bit more work and guiding to the behavior i want and we'll be good to go for many years to come


its just like with tweek. she's very DA but after time, training, and patience i can take her around other dogs (not around like playing but like on walks and no, i dont let other peoples dogs "sniff" my dog WTF is up with that question anyway!). most people would think she's very "friendly" towards dogs because when she see's them she "smiles" and wags her tail, but i know better. i've just gotten her out of the whole acting like a lunatic thing when she see's dogs.

so i know with time and training i can get sai there too....


thanks for all the responses and support guys... only other bully owners really get me most times lol

[hapasaparaz]

I'm new so I hope I don't step on any toe's, but I very much agree with the thought of "knowing your dog" and I think that's very important on determining how you chose to handle a situation. It's obvious that your working with the dog so you really know it's personality. Not like some I've seen that just ignore the dog or leave it in a back yard all day then take randomly decide to take it out for a walk once a month then not understand why it acts up...