[DumErrory]

So, forgive me, but can someone spell out the purpose/question of the OP? Very little words please?

If any civilisation is to survive for a length of time, then they must live within the limits of their environment. So yes they must go green!

[Misespimb]

Ok.... So given that the OP wants to search for evidence of alien technology, what's that got to do with that technology being "green"?

Are we going to find signs of life before we find signs of technological advancement? So in essence, time really doesn't have anything to do with it, other than as a measure of distance?

Their suggestion is that there is an advantage in 'behaving like nature', such that a sufficiently advance society will, for some reason, progress towards a state where it's technology is indistinguishable from natural systems,

I have a problem with this because I don't necessarily believe that 'behaving like nature' offers any particular advantage at all. Nature is, after all, void of moral judgment and inherently indiscriminate.

[pageup85]

From the OP.......

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In the famous words of Arthur C. Clarke, “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” This phrase is often quoted to express the idea that an alien civilization which may be thousands or millions of years older than us would have technology so far ahead of ours that to us it would appear to be “magic.”



Now, a variation of that thought has come from Canadian science fiction writer Karl Schroeder, who posits that ”any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from nature.” The reasoning is that if a civilization manages to exist that long, it would inevitably “go green” to such an extent that it would no longer leave any detectable waste products behind. Its artificial signatures would blend in with those of the natural universe, making it much more difficult to detect them by simply searching for artificial constructs versus natural ones.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


OK, first we are not talking Dinosaurs or just any form of life.
Civilisations according to Wiki:



Civilization (or civilisation) is a sometimes controversial term that has been used in several related ways. Primarily, the term has been used to refer to the material and instrumental side of human cultures that are complex in terms of technology, science, and division of labor. Such civilizations are generally hierarchical and urbanized. In a classical context, people were called "civilized" to set them apart from barbarians, while in a modern-day context, "civilized peoples" have been contrasted with primitive peoples.
There is a tendency to use the term in a less strict way, to mean approximately the same thing as "culture" and therefore, the term can more broadly refer to any important and clearly defined human society.[1] Still, even when used in this second sense, the word is often restricted to apply only to societies that have attained a particular level of advancement — especially the founding of cities.
The level of advancement of a civilization is often measured by its progress in agriculture, long-distance trade, occupational specialization, a special governing class, and urbanism. Aside from these core elements, a civilization is often marked by any combination of a number of secondary elements, including a developed transportation system, writing, standardized measurement, currency, contractual and tort-based legal systems, characteristic art and architecture, mathematics, enhanced scientific understanding, metallurgy, political structures, and organized religion.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


So let's forget about Dino and his mates.

Secondly and as I have said two or three times already, it [the article] offers another scenario to use in our search for our ETI friends.....

[mdUzAMbG]

Their suggestion is that there is an advantage in 'behaving like nature', such that a sufficiently advance society will, for some reason, progress towards a state where it's technology is indistinguishable from natural systems,

I have a problem with this because I don't necessarily believe that 'behaving like nature' offers any particular advantage at all. Nature is, after all, void of moral judgment and inherently indiscriminate.

We are already part of Nature and we cannot live without it.

[excholza]

We are already part of Nature and we cannot live without it.

And if we don't treat her properly, she'll protest eventually.

[replicaypu]

If any civilisation is to survive for a length of time, then they must live within the limits of their environment. So yes they must go green!

You don't really need to go green to last a length of time, if you are technologically advanced you can move on to the next place, spread out, alter the environment in pockets or as a whole, alter yourselves, breed less, etc.

[seosoftseo]

You don't really need to go green to last a length of time, if you are technologically advanced you can move on to the next place, spread out, alter the environment in pockets or as a whole, alter yourselves, breed less, etc i posted this earlier...

THE SUSTAINABILITY SOLUTION TO THE FERMI PARADOX

No present observations suggest a technologically advanced extraterrestrial intelligence (ETI) has spread through the galaxy. However, under commonplace assumptions about galactic civilization formation and expansion, this absence of observation is highly unlikely. This improbability is the heart of the Fermi Paradox. The Fermi Paradox leads some to conclude that humans have the only advanced civilization in this galaxy, either because civilization formation is very rare or because intelligent civilizations inevitably destroy themselves. In this paper, we argue that this conclusion is premature by introducing the "Sustainability Solution" to the Fermi Paradox, which questions the Paradox's assumption of faster (e.g. exponential) civilization growth. Drawing on insights from the sustainability of human civilization on Earth, we propose that faster-growth may not be sustainable on the galactic scale. If this is the case, then there may exist ETI that have not expanded throughout the galaxy or have done so but collapsed. These possibilities have implications for both searches for ETI and for human civilization management.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0906.0568

[Qzmsdoem]

how does "going green" fit in with level 2 and 3 civilisations? can you use the all energy of a whole sun and still be considered "green"?

[Anakattawl]

how does "going green" fit in with level 2 and 3 civilisations? can you use the all energy of a whole sun and still be considered "green"?

I dare say the energy requirements of most 2 or 3 civilisations, would pale into insignificance to the total power/energy put out by an average star.

[johnteriz]

You don't really need to go green to last a length of time, if you are technologically advanced you can move on to the next place, spread out, alter the environment in pockets or as a whole, alter yourselves, breed less, etc.

Sorry, I had forgotten about the garden of Eden. Just a few points though, firstly you must be able to reach a new abode, then successful colonise it. Then there is the food, where does that come from? And another small point, we are actually a walking zoo by carrying around a huge assortment of microorganisms, many essential to our health and general welfare, will they be happy with the long-term move too?

[pavlik]

the whole idea behind kardashev scale is that they do utilise the entire output...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

[ZESINTERS]

Sorry, I had forgotten about the garden of Eden. Just a few points though, firstly you must be able to reach a new abode, then successful colonise it. Then there is the food, where does that come from? And another small point, we are actually a walking zoo by carrying around a huge assortment of microorganisms, many essential to our health and general welfare, will they be happy with the long-term move too?

And any and all of that could be achieved by a class 1 or 2 civilisation.

[ZESINTERS]

And any and all of that could be achieved by a class 1 or 2 civilisation.

You mean they have a magic top hat where they can continually pull out rabbits?

[hopertveyk]

the whole idea behind kardashev scale is that they do utilise the entire output...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

Utilise or have at there disposal if needed.

To actually "utilise" the total output of an average Sun, is pretty formanable

[sbrpkkl]

You mean they have a magic top hat where they can continually pull out rabbits?

Well as Arthur C Clarke so eloquently put it, "Any sufficiently advanced civilisation will appear as magic" *shrug*

[vipdumpp]

interesting in that wiki on Kardashev...

Extensions to the original scale

The state that human civilization currently occupies was originally Type I in the Kardashev scale, but has a K value below 1 using Sagan's logarithmic formula (described above).

Zoltan Galantai has defined a further extrapolation of the scale, a Type IV level which controls the energy output of the visible universe; this is within a few orders of magnitude of 1045 W. Such a civilization approaches or surpasses the limits of speculation based on current scientific understanding, and may not be possible. Frank J. Tipler's Omega point would presumably occupy this level, as would the Biocosm hypothesis. Galantai has argued that such a civilization could not be detected, as its activities would be indistinguishable from the workings of nature (there being nothing to compare them to)

seeing we are talking "green".

[tooratrack]

Sorry, I had forgotten about the garden of Eden. Just a few points though, firstly you must be able to reach a new abode, then successful colonise it. Then there is the food, where does that come from? And another small point, we are actually a walking zoo by carrying around a huge assortment of microorganisms, many essential to our health and general welfare, will they be happy with the long-term move too?

If you are sufficiently technologically advanced I would think that you could easily cover those issues and not be green about it...

[Karpattaisp]

interesting in that wiki on Kardashev...

Extensions to the original scale

The state that human civilization currently occupies was originally Type I in the Kardashev scale, but has a K value below 1 using Sagan's logarithmic formula (described above).




Zoltan Galantai has defined a further extrapolation of the scale, a Type IV level which controls the energy output of the visible universe; this is within a few orders of magnitude of 1045 W. Such a civilization approaches or surpasses the limits of speculation based on current scientific understanding, and may not be possible. Frank J. Tipler's Omega point would presumably occupy this level, as would the Biocosm hypothesis. Galantai has argued that such a civilization could not be detected, as its activities would be indistinguishable from the workings of nature (there being nothing to compare them to)

seeing we are talking "green".

And of course with regards to that scale we are on a dirty big fat class 0.

[konanoileaski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdILmgJGuvw

[propolo]

If you are sufficiently technologically advanced I would think that you could easily cover those issues and not be green about it...

If that were the case, then you would be living within the means of your environment, so therefore you would be green.