[kazinopartnerkae]

Young gel probably wasn't familiar with the term.

Thank you Morrie for helping clear that up for me....

[BaselBimbooooo]

Young gel probably wasn't familiar with the term.

Are yes the good old days.........I remember on one occasion in India......

[janeloveslifenow]

The Gen1 USS Enterprise is a huge ship. At .6 miles in length it’s bigger than any craft or building ever constructed. It’s nearly three times as long as the largest US aircraft carrier, and its length is greater than the tallest building in the world.

Why is it so big? First, it must house a gravity wheel that is large enough in diameter so that people are comfortable inside of it and the behavior of gravity to them seems reasonably earthlike. Second, the Enterprise is a combination of spaceship, space station, and spaceport. This means it must support having many people on board at once – up to a thousand at any given time. It must be able to dock and refuel multiple smaller spacecrafts at the same time. And the huge cargo-carrying capacity is critical for hauling probes, landers, and base-building equipment to Mars and elsewhere. Simply put, if we want to get serious about establishing a permanent human presence in space, with robust and sustainable capabilities to do big things up there, we need a big ship.






http://www.buildtheenterprise.org/ship-size



Twice as long as the WTC's were high!

[Munccoughe]

That is just plain untrue....
I do what I see fit to do. and that maybe taking part in discussion/debate and/or referring to cut n pastes...Just like the rest of us.
The problem of course is that the cut n pastes you and some others object to, support my stance...*shrug*

I had a young PhD working for me once in a research lab. She had to write a literature review on the subject of salt crystallisation. She beavered away for a couple of weeks and produced a document that comprised large verbatim quotes from various papers, stitched together with ill-formed sentences that were like a crude glue. This was pre-internet, so no cut and pastes were possible.

The result, however, was very similar to a string of cut and pastes. It was an embarassment to have to present it to the client. I had to spend a whole weekend reading through it and writing an extended executive summary to put at the front of it so that the client had something useful and we didn't appear like incompetent idiots.

[pimbertiemoft]

I had a young PhD working for me once in a research lab. She had to write a literature review on the subject of salt crystallisation. She beavered away for a couple of weeks and produced a document that comprised large verbatim quotes from various papers, stitched together with ill-formed sentences that were like a crude glue. This was pre-internet, so no cut and pastes were possible.

The result, however, was very similar to a string of cut and pastes. It was an embarassment to have to present it to the client. I had to spend a whole weekend reading through it and writing an extended executive summary to put at the front of it so that the client had something useful and we didn't appear like incompetent idiots.

Ah yes, the good old days..........I remember a case like that in India............

[RerRibreLok]

Ah yes, the good old days..........I remember a case like that in India............

LOL. I will grant you more wit than your mate. :-)

[masaredera]

The website includes a blog, a forum and a Q&A section, where BTE Dan answers the question, “What if someone can prove that building the Gen1 Enterprise is beyond our technological reach?”

Answer: “If someone can convince me that it is not technically possible (ignoring political and funding issues), then I will state on the BuildTheEnterprise site that I have been found to be wrong. In that case, building the first Enterprise will have to wait for, say, another half century. But I don’t think that anyone will be able to convince me it can’t be done. My position is that we can – and should – immediately start working on it.” It's probably worth nothing that the burden of proof is typically borne by the person making the statement, not the other way around. It's also worth noting that conceptual designs are not detailed engineering plans.

Now I'm no aerospace engineer but I can see some pretty serious issues with building a spaceship in the likeness of the Enterprise... seems to me to be the mutterings of a die-hard Star Trek fan rather than rational engineering.

[Bxbhtjnr]

There were way too many personal attacks in this thread. Everyone has the right to post their views on here without getting sniped at for doing so. Please respect others even when disagreeing. Winding people up went too far in this thread. I've reopened it, but there mustnt be any more sniping.

[cristmiff]

It's probably worth nothing that the burden of proof is typically borne by the person making the statement, not the other way around. It's also worth noting that conceptual designs are not detailed engineering plans.

Now I'm no aerospace engineer but I can see some pretty serious issues with building a spaceship in the likeness of the Enterprise... seems to me to be the mutterings of a die-hard Star Trek fan rather than rational engineering.

And we could also very likely get two Aerospace Engineers with opposing views on this matter, and that's the point.
It would be extremely difficult to do. No one has ever said otherwise...
It would probably take a decade just for planning as I recall BTE Dan has already said, and probably another decade or two to construct...
But what a vision for mankind if we undertook such a venture!
I'm not technically minded enough to really critique such a venture adequately, so once again I say to all those that question it, to take your worries and concerns and perceived difficulties and impossibilites to BTE Dan's site and pop the questions there.

I remain positive that such a venture could be undertaken, but not solely as put by BTE Dan.
He sees it as an American/NASA venture....I see it as an international venture from planet Earth

He sees it as a replica of the Star Trek Enterprise with some variations to align with todays technology [see his web site for those differences] I'm not too concerned how far we venture from the original Star Trek design, and see it more of a generation type ship which may or may not be a replica of the Star Trek Enterprise.

People throughout history have bagged large scale ventures...Our own Snowy Mountains project had plenty of opposition right through the planning stages until construction was completed.
Who said "you can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time"


The chances of this taking off are slim to near zero.
The point is it's an imaginative innovative idea that should be thought on.
We are going to get to Mars one day...
We will have a base on the Moon one day...
We'll leave our solar system one day....

I just agree that it would be better to start now.
But I'm greedy...I want this to happen in my life time before I kick the bucket. hehehe

[TriamiCaw]

The counter rotating ring might be filled with water or propellant since a lot of both are needed in the Enterprise. In general the idea is to create this counter rotating ring’s mass out of materials that are already needed on the ship. so what happens to the effectiveness of this counter-rotating wheel when this mass is used up?

This includes making sure enough capacity is ready to support the 200-300 launches needed to launch all Enterprise components for its construction in space. 200-300 launches? how many heavy lift launches have taken place in the history of spaceflight to this point in time?

here is a pdf on proposals to beam microwave power from space and the equipment and launches needed to get mass "up there". while this craft wouldn't weigh as much the figures can be used as a guide as to cost and feasibility.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/14777620701509215

SOLAR POWER BEAMED FROM SPACE
DONALD RAPP
Independent Contractor

[Quvwcxqx]

I don't have a massive problem engineering wise from the layout. I agree that for some scenarios that configuration makes sense.

In terms of precession. Doesn't really come I to it. What it isn't like is the movie starship enterprise. It doesn't zip I to orbit and go from warp 9 to orbit in no time at all. Starting and stopping the rotating section would be done over a long time period. You don't really make aggressive turns in space. The trajectory is for the most part a section of an elongated solar orbit.

Ion engines make sense in terms of energy source. If you use nuclear what you have is electrical energy. The other option would be a nuclear drive, but we don't really have one yet so may void the idea of using current tech"

Really the problem is money rather than technology. I am sure a ship that can travel as fast as this one, and is as big as this o e would end up looking quite different to this concept. However that is not really the issue. The issue is money.

[agildeta]

The issue is money. yes and like i said ignoring this part is like ignoring the laws of physics. more a dream than a reality. though nowt wrong in that as long as this point is recognised.

[worldofwarcraft]

And ye canna change the laws of physics

[minowz]

And ye canna change the laws of physics that's quitter talk.

[DoctorAlexandro]

yes and like i said ignoring this part is like ignoring the laws of physics. more a dream than a reality. though nowt wrong in that as long as this point is recognised.

And like I said, the laws of physics are unchangable , but we can alter political and economical circumstances.
And veering away slightly from BTE Dan idea of it being solely an Americal/NASA scheme, I envisage it to be International.
Still expensive as was and is any big wortwhile project.
If someone decided to take up the cudgel, I'm reasonably sure we could finance it internationally.

[corolaelwis]

And like I said, the laws of physics are unchangable that misses the point of the quote though. it is not about whether they change but whether they are considered.

[AblemTee]

that misses the point of the quote though. it is not about whether they change but whether they are considered.

But he's given a method of financing it.
But again even if the Americans/NASA would be able to finance it his way [over 20years from memory] I think it's far better for an International effort.

I have already said there would be many difficult problems to overcome to even start considering such a thing, but solutions to problems are only ever found when the problem is considered. It certainly will never be overcome by sweeping it all under the carpet.

[theonsushv]

I don't have a massive problem engineering wise from the layout. I agree that for some scenarios that configuration makes sense.

In terms of precession. Doesn't really come I to it. What it isn't like is the movie starship enterprise. It doesn't zip I to orbit and go from warp 9 to orbit in no time at all. Starting and stopping the rotating section would be done over a long time period. You don't really make aggressive turns in space. The trajectory is for the most part a section of an elongated solar orbit.

Ion engines make sense in terms of energy source. If you use nuclear what you have is electrical energy. The other option would be a nuclear drive, but we don't really have one yet so may void the idea of using current tech"

Really the problem is money rather than technology. I am sure a ship that can travel as fast as this one, and is as big as this o e would end up looking quite different to this concept. However that is not really the issue. The issue is money.

Nice post Martin...
Of course the issue is money!
That's the reason why I differ from BTE Dan, and would make it an International effort....
.

[bpejjssoe]

Really the problem is money rather than technology. I am sure a ship that can travel as fast as this one, and is as big as this o e would end up looking quite different to this concept. However that is not really the issue. The issue is money.

For anyone who knows anything about economics, the current climate dictates that this will never take off the ground. For starters it would require cooperation between countries that aren't very interested in cooperating with each other, it will take money that nobody has or is willing to go into debt for, the only _good_ thing it could achieve is to provide employment for people, but again, who is going to pay their wages? How is this project going to make money? No one is going to throw away a bazillion dollars and get no return on their investment, and sorry, but intellectual gains don't pay the bills...

[lalffibra]

For anyone who knows anything about economics, the current climate dictates that this will never take off the ground. For starters it would require cooperation between countries that aren't very interested in cooperating with each other, it will take money that nobody has or is willing to go into debt for, the only _good_ thing it could achieve is to provide employment for people, but again, who is going to pay their wages? How is this project going to make money? No one is going to throw away a bazillion dollars and get no return on their investment, and sorry, but intellectual gains don't pay the bills...

And we have faced these problems in the past, and the usual cost is always prohibitive as any worth while projects cost is, and intellectual gains most probably do pay the bills in the end with new technologies and knowledge gained.
The ability of Nations working together can work...check out the ISS...and it would work for this.
To lay back and curl up in our little shells like snails because of perceived economic difficulties, is denying our children and their children their progress into mans most important venture into the Cosmos of which he is apart.

Times are a changing...Economies will falter and boom...Politics will change and change again, but our tenure on this fart arse little blue orb is only temporary.
One way or the other, these things are going to eventuate one day...My greed though, would like to see that start before my time to kick the bucket comes.

Yes, the chances are slim to non existant as I have said up there.
But at least someone is making an effort.
And I commend and support him for that and wish him luck in getting it started.
If it doesn't happen, well then, too bad...It will be up to the next generation.