[S.T.D.]

A great presentation by Norman Podhoretz that runs about 30 minutes after a series of introductions. There is a lengthy Q&A that follows.

http://jpundit.typepad.com/jci/2009/...-liberals.html

Discussions of Norman Podhoretz's "Why Are Jews Liberals?"

Below is the video of Norman Podhoretz's presentation of his book "Why Are Jews Liberals?" at the Skirball Auditorium.

The introductions are by Doris Wise Montrose (Children of Jewish Holocaust Survivors), Rick Richman (Jewish Current Issues) and David Horowitz (Horowitz Freedom Center), following by Podhoretz's speech and a Q&A session. (Email subscribers can view the video here).

In the December 14 issue of the Weekly Standard, Philip Terzian has an interesting review of "Why Are Jews Liberals?" which concludes as follows: The great value of Podhoretz's study is not so much his enumeration of the many means by which Jews vote against their interests in a variety of bewildering ways--overlooking anti-Semitism on the left, for example, or rationalizing racial quotas--but in his notion that, in a secular environment, liberalism is itself a kind of religious faith which, in America, competes in its particulars with a fractured American Judaism. "To most American Jews," he writes, "liberalism is not .  .  . merely a necessary component of Jewishness: it is the very essence of being a Jew." It is a startling insight, and Podhoretz clings to the hope that American Jews will someday awaken to its implications. They could not do better than to read and debate this brilliant, disarming, engaging work. The December 16 discussion of the book between Norman Podhoretz and Avi Davis at Western Word Radio is also worth listening to at: www.blogtalkradio/com/westernradio/2009/12/16/why-are-jews-liberals.

[Lt_Apple]

The core ethic of liberalism is that you must change and adapt because that is the only way to reach the highest quality of life and morals. The core ethic of conservatism is "do it the old way because that's what we know". That's what Jews are attracted to with liberalism. Unfortunately the cause has been hijacked by the self serving and there are some decent qualities to true (old-school) conservatism meaning there's little practical difference between the current implementations of liberalism and conservatism. So it's pointless for Jews to be liberal. Besides, all ideologies are pointless. You can't solve any issue with an ideology.

[Lt_Apple]

Podhoretz makes this point, that if you assert that Jewish values have become 'liberal' values then one would expect the Orthodox to be overwhelmingly liberal. But of course that is not the case. In fact, liberal values have replaced Jewish values to become their own religion. But in any case I highly recommend you take an hour and a quarter or so and listen to the whole thing. You may not agree with all of it but it's well worth the time spent listening to Podhoretz.

[NeroASERCH]

Jews are liberal b/c of minority politics in multinational states vs autocracies they suffered (and continue to suffer) under in places like Russia. By generically securing minority freedoms they per se secure their own. Thats as far as the far right conspiracy is actually true. Not an inch further. Nor is it concerted, just default disposition of many people acting individually. Right? Wrong? that is the impulse.

[Lt_Apple]

Depends on the definition of what is meant by words conservatism and liberalism. Social, economic, political liberalism/conservatism might mean a different thing. Some "Right Wing" Jews are all for hallucinogenic additives, lots of naked people, and loud music - they are just for hard line approach to the Arab thing. Some "Liberal" Jews are defenders of the likes of Fidel, who is definitely not much of a Liberal.

[Paul Bunyan]

What has surprised me is that a country with such far-left foundations has moved so far to the right as has Israel.

What is considered "Right" in your opinion, in this case? Are referring to the Israeli/Arab conflict and how Israelis react to that conflict?

As to all else Israel is an exemplary socialist "liberal" country. Here in America any Israeli leader, even most "right-wing", like Netaniahu, basing just on social and economic principles, would be considered way further left then Obama. It's just happens that "direction" of Israeli politics are judged by their perception of the Arab/Israeli conflict. You can have a gay-environmentalist crack-smoking types voting for Likud or ultra-conservative orthodox voting for liberal parties only based on the perception of what each party stand on the Arab/Israeli thing is. All-in-all Israel is far-left of center country.

[Lt_Apple]

Jews are liberal b/c of minority politics in multinational states vs autocracies they suffered (and continue to suffer) under in places like Russia. By generically securing minority freedoms they per se secure their own.

Bingo.

[Slonopotam845]

Podhoretz makes the mistake of confusing the religion of Liberalism (and agreed it is a religion of sorts), with Jewish support for Democrats. I don't think most Jews vote Democrat because they are of the far left bleeding heart liberal sort, but simply because the see Democrats as the least abhorrent option and the one which most closely matches their policy support. So again the question comes to "why do Jews generally support liberal policy?". I don't think the historical benefit liberals played in minority rights factors in to the issues of today either.

In the video Podhoretz basically parrots the "Obama is trying to socialize the country!!!!1" line (which conservatives would have said about any Democratic president), which is a mantra of the conservative religion. Ironic.

[9mm_fan]

By Andak01:

I judge the leftness or rightness of Israel by the only lens I have available to me, the politicians that the Israel lobby holds in high regard in America.

? Like who? Hilary, Obama, Biden? It just happens that Israel gets support from across the entire political spectrum.

By that measure they have shifted to the right over the past decades.

Not true.

The definition of what constitutes liberal is somewhat subjective and varies country to country as well as from what a country considers itself versus what others think of it.

By all definitions and in all reality Israel is way further to the left economically, socially and politically then America. Like I said "left/right" in Israel and how Israel is perceived externally is solely based on one's stand on the Israeli/Arab conflict. As to other countries I don't think it all varies country by country. A Liberal Democracy is a Liberal Democracy. Israel is no Morocco either politically, economically or socially.

[Big A]

Podhoretz asks why do Jews support Democrats. On the face of it, if you view electoral politics as a reflection of socioeconomic tendencies, then Jews as a group and broadly speaking, shouldn't support the Democrats. So either the theory of socioeconomic tendencies is wrong, or the Jews are an anomaly. Now having said that, it's also true that many many people who support the GOP come from the middle class, the lower middle class and working class, so in theory, they are also voting against their own socioeconomic interests.

Perhaps the theory is wrong and people vote along more abstract lines, lines of sociophilosophic tendencies, or socioreligious tendencies. Or maybe they're just plain stupid and will vote however people tell them to.

What is true is that the generation of American Jews who are first generation is dying out. These were the children of socialists, communists, union organizers, Trotskyites, the red diaper babies and so on. But their children are confronted with a different set of challenges - not making it to the middle class but staying there. Our outlook is quite a bit different than theirs was. We're probably not as likely to lean left for left's sake. On the other hand, limousine liberalism is in some ways, like obesity, a disease of affluence. Many American Jews can afford to represent against their own interests because it doesn't cost them anything to do so. They can afford to support every half assed revolutionary cause, every gaggle of liberation armies, every whale every spotted owl every filthy starving child somewhere. A mile wide and a millimeter deep is the extent of their concern. It's cheap it's easy, it's branding.

But I digress.....

[doctorzlo]

Mil,

I judge the leftness or rightness of Israel by the only lens I have available to me, the politicians that the Israel lobby holds in high regard in America. By that measure they have shifted to the right over the past decades.

According to this theory, since the so-called liberal and left-wing politician Dennis Kucinich supports Hezballah, that means that Hezballah is liberal and/or left-wing... Also many left-wing parties like the Green Party support Hamas. And that's how you're going to judge the "leftness or righness" of Hamas?

See how your theory doesn't hold any water?