[aLZ9zKsO]

LONDON (AFP) - Britain is becoming a "surveillance society", where CCTV cameras, credit card analysis and travel movements are being used to track people's lives minute by minute, a report published suggested..

The 140-page document, produced by academic group the Surveillance Studies Network, warns that by 2016 people's lives will be monitored even more than they are now by the government, the public sector and also big business.

Britain, which has up to 4.2 million CCTV cameras, about
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one for every 14 people, was ranked as the Western world's leading society where surveillance was "endemic" -- alongside countries such as China and Russia.

The government is pushing ahead with controversial plans to introduce biometric identity cards while Prime Minister Tony Blair has said he wants an expansion of the police's DNA database, even of people released without charge.

As international data protection and privacy commissioners prepared to meet in London, information commissioner Richard Thomas said the report was a "clear signal" that the country was waking up to a surveillance society.

"It's not just cameras in the street and things like that. It's technology monitoring our movements and activities," he told BBC radio.

"Every time we use a mobile phone, use our credit cards, go online, do searches on the Internet, electronic shopping, driving in our cars now: more and more information is being collected, so we're leaving an electronic footprint."

Thomas -- whose remit is to promote public access to official information and to protect personal data -- insisted they were not scaremongering by painting a "sinister, Orwellian picture".

Instead he said the "Report on the Surveillance Society" he commissioned was the start of a necessary debate about what should be the limits of technology.

"These things have happened, I wouldn't say by stealth, but they have happened gradually," he told the broadcaster, admitting that some schemes have been beneficial, such as those used to fight crime.

"We've got to say where do we want the lines to be drawn? How much do we want to have surveillance changing the nature of society in a democratic nature...

"We've got to stand back and see where technology is taking us and making sure we are happy."

The report highlights the use and sharing of data without a person's knowledge -- such as the use of credit card, mobile phone and loyalty card information for marketing purposes -- and the associated risks and dangers.

Thomas said he was concerned that some practices ran the risk of mistaken identity, inaccuracy, false suspicion and wrong inferences.

Politicians, civil servants, the police and law enforcement agencies needed to "wake up" and be aware of the "certain lines that must not be crossed" if they are to retain the trust and confidence of the public, he added.

[Payodcapy542fro]

I post the above as a warning to you guys in America as my life plan calls for me to emigrate from this nasty, nasty, nasty little country within two years and as the US is a candidate for moving to I don't want the country I choose to live in to get like mine is. That is all.

[tweriaroats]

Don't consider a move here until after Nov 2008.

At that time, we may both need another option.

[Unhappu]

From:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/cri...cle1948177.ece
The Big Question: What is the DNA database, and why do we have so many people on it?

By Nigel Morris, Home Affairs Correspondent

Published: 02 November 2006

Why are we asking this question now?

Since its creation 11 years ago, ministers have taken great pride in the fact that this country leads the world in the creation of a national DNA database. But its rapid growth - it now contains genetic profiles of more than 3.6 million people, many of whom have never been convicted of an offence - is ringing alarm bells.

Sir Alec Jeffreys, a pioneer of DNA forensic science, has brought those fears into focus with a warning that the expansion is out of control. He condemned the "mission creep" behind the project, protesting that the database was never intended to include innocent citizens. The Nuffield Council on Bioethics, an independent think-tank, has also raised concerns that the country risks being transformed from a "nation of citizens" into a "nation of suspects".

The DNA database is just the latest example, civil liberties groups argue, of the gradual creation of a "surveillance state" by Labour. As evidence, they point to the proliferation of closed-circuit television cameras and plans for identity cards, underpinned by a national identity register.

What are DNA profiles and how are they taken?

Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) contains the genetic information unique to each living being. It is typically extracted from samples of saliva, blood, semen and hair. With the exception of identical twins, a human being's DNA is unique and the probability of a false match between two unrelated individuals is said to be less than one in one billion.

With the frontiers of genetic science pushed back over the past two decades - and courts ever more reluctant to convict on the basis of confessions - detectives have turned to the fast-developing technology with excitement. Non-intimate samples, usually a mouth swab, can be taken by police without consent, while consent has to be given for taking blood.

Why has the database developed so quickly?

The last Tory home secretary, Michael Howard, established the world's first DNA database, which is based in Birmingham. But the principle has been enthusiastically embraced, and developed, by Labour. Nearly four years ago police were given the right to obtain and retain DNA from anyone arrested, regardless of whether they are eventually prosecuted or convicted.

The legislation, which received very little publicity because it was announced on the second day of the Iraq war, has had the effect of dramatically accelerating the collection of samples.

Forty thousand profiles are added to the database every month and today some 6 per cent of the population - and far higher proportions of young men and ethnic minorities - are on record. That compares with an average just over 1 per cent in other European countries and 0.5 per cent in the United States. The genetic information remains on file for a person's life and is almost impossible to remove. The practice in England and Wales contrasts with Scotland where an individual's DNA details are removed if they are acquitted.

Suspicions are growing that the Government wants to create a national DNA database of every adult. They were fuelled last month when Tony Blair said he believed the number on the "database should be the maximum number you can get".

What safeguards are there against abuse?

An unnamed "custodian", based in the Home Office, has responsibility for controlling the quality of the database and for limiting access to its contents. In addition, a board bringing together Home Office officials, police chiefs and police authority members monitors its development.

The Home Office says its contents "can only be used for the prevention or detection of crime, the investigation of an offence and the conduct of a prosecution". However, the department has come under fire for allowing EU police forces to examine its records. It insists that sharing information helps the fight against international crime, but critics fear it could ultimately mean losing track of who has access to confidential data. There was also a report this year that one of the six private companies used by police to analyse DNA is keeping copies of the results rather than destroying them.


Do DNA profiles help catch criminals?

DNA is successfully obtained at less than 1 per cent of crime scenes. But according to the Government, it is still having a significant impact, with the presence of DNA sharply increasing the chances of solving a crime. The crime detection rate last year was 26 per cent; where DNA evidence existed it rose to 40 per cent.

Recent advances in DNA technology have also allowed police to reopen their investigations into scores of unsolved "cold cases". This work, Operation Advance, has so far led to 21 convictions with sentences handed out to date totalling more than 100 years as well as three life terms. Those who have been tracked down include James Lloyd, the South Yorkshire "shoe rapist", who was convicted for sex attacks in the 1980s after his sister gave a DNA sample when she was stopped over a driving offence.

Police also argue that the database is a useful tool for ruling out the innocent from their inquiries.

Should innocent people worry about the database?

At the heart of this debate is the balance between protecting the civil liberties of the population and increasing its security against violent crime. Without doubt, worrying anomalies have been created by the rapid growth of the DNA database.

There are 24,000 under-18s in the United Kingdom who have committed no crime and have not even been in the court, but whose DNA is being held in the database.

They include an 11-year-old whose DNA was taken during an armed robbery investigation and a Northern Ireland girl who was caught writing her name on a wall.
At least one third of young black men have had samples taken, many after being targeted through stop-and-search legislation. That is more than 10 times the proportion of Afro-Caribbeans in the population at large. This disparity both reinforces and results from a stereotype that black people are more likely to commit crimes than white people.

The civil rights group Liberty says Britons are now the "most spied-upon people in Western Europe", and all innocent people on the database could reasonably ask what entitles the state to retain private genetic information about them.

Is this a price worth paying for the fight against crime?

And could it be right that this quiet revolution has happened with virtually no public debate?
Should the police be allowed to keep the DNA of innocent people?
Yes...
* Where DNA evidence exists, the chance of solving a crime improves by more than 50 per cent
* A string of 'cold cases', including murders dating backing two decades, have been cracked
* Innocent people have nothing to fear from the database - and can be ruled out of investigations
No...
* The innocent have a fundamental right not to have their details included on a criminal database
* Disproportionate numbers of young people and ethnic minorities are on record
* The confidentiality and security of any database - particularly one that is rapidly expanding - is hard to guarantee

[khjhkfggt]

From the Sunday Times, Oct 15, 2006

"According to a recent BBC poll, more than half of British people have considered emigrating at some point in their lives. But when asked about whether they would actually ever go, 13% said they were hoping to in the near future, almost twice the number who responded this way in 2003. Young people were the most likely to want to leave, with a quarter saying they were hoping to live abroad. When asked why, the most important reasons were a better quality of life, better weather and a feeling that Britain is too expensive."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...403621,00.html

[new-nickname-zanovo]

Looks like Big Brother is looking for a lot more information from us come the census in 2011.

Information such as: how much do you earn? where do you sleep? have you got a second home? marital status? are you in a homosexual civil partnership? details about learning difficulties or psychological problems, ethnicity, faith, etc etc - 24 pages worth of personal details all to be put on the central government database.

Failure to answer questions will result in a criminal conviction and a £1000 fine.

Welcome to LABOURLAND! This life today in Britain under this corrupt evil morally-bankrupt Labour government!

A government that has allowed 4.2 million CCTV cameras to be erected without any democratic debate - thats 1 camera for every 14 citizens!

How would Americans react to such an invasion to their privacy?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...&icc=NEWS&ct=5

[Vcwdldva]

I just watched the 1 O'Clock news and it shocked even me to learn that 1,000 Brits A DAY are now emigrating. After the week I've just had I'm joining them.

Right now I'm looking at New Zealand, North West Italy, North East coast of USA (NH maybe), West coast of Canada or the BVI where I used to live for a while (co-incidently they had their first murder in seven years last week ).

Rapunzel - nice to see another new member on here - the more so is you have bumps in your jumper (why the lack of women on here?) but what your post doesn't say is that the government want to encode my (our) DNA onto Identity Cards which we will be compelled to carry. As alluded to in your post, the implications exceed the simplistic "crime" argument. Also, as of yesterday, all our medical records are to be loaded onto a central government database to which 250,000 civil servants will have access to....

One other study of the of contemporary UK came out today, which I have personal experience and shows the way society is going in the here and more reasons why I want no further part of it:-


Britain's teenagers 'amongst worst behaved in Europe'
Young people in the UK are amongst the worst behaved in Europe, research by a leading think-tank has revealed.

In a series of indicators on bad behaviour, including drugs, drink, violence and promiscuity, Britain was at, or close to the top, a study by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) shows.

The research, which was conducted over recent years, reveals that British 15-year-olds are getting drunk more often, are involved in more fights and a higher proportion have had sex compared with their counterparts in Germany, France and Italy.

One study carried out suggested that in 2003, 38 per cent of 15-year-olds in the UK had tried cannabis, compared to just 7 per cent in Sweden and 27 per cent in Germany.

According to the IPPR, one of the key indicators that defines British adolescents is how they spend their spare time compared to their European counterparts.

Whereas 45 per cent of 15-year-old boys in England and 59 per cent in Scotland spend most evenings with friends, in France that figure stands at just 17 per cent.

In contrast, European teenagers are much more likely to sit down to a meal with their parents. In Italy 93 per cent eat regularly with their families, compared with 64 per cent in the UK.

Nick Pearce, director of the IPPR, told the BBC that the figures pointed to "increasing disconnect" between children and adults, with youngsters learning how to behave from each other.

"Because they don’t have that structured interaction with adults, it damages their life chances," he said.

"They are not learning how to behave - how to get on in life - as they need to."

A spokesman for the IPPR said no further information on its study would be released until the publication of the report on Monday.

The findings of the report coincided with the release of a study from the Youth Justice Board, showing that antisocial behaviour orders have become a "badge of honour" for youths, with parents and carers saying they were viewed as "diplomas" which boosted a teenager’s reputation rather than having a punitive effect.

The survey found that more than half of respondents had breached their orders, a large number on more than one occasion, with youth workers saying that Asbos had little positive impact on the behaviour of young people.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...433948,00.html

[QzVyZbTg]

I believe there is a deliberate policy on behalf of this Labour government to dumb-down education, increase drinking hours, relax drug legislation & enforcement, not be worried by the huge numbers of marriage/family breakdowns - its all part of creating a large uneducated "underclass" that will end up in dead-end jobs or on the dole, obese, lack ambition of anykind, become reliant on drink & drugs, and spend their days/nights in a stupified state of unwillingness to do anything that would worry the government!

[maysubers]

I believe there is a deliberate policy on behalf of this Labour government to dumb-down education, increase drinking hours, relax drug legislation & enforcement, not be worried by the huge numbers of marriage/family breakdowns - its all part of creating a large uneducated "underclass" that will end up in dead-end jobs or on the dole, obese, lack ambition of anykind, become reliant on drink & drugs, and spend their days/nights in a stupified state of unwillingness to do anything that would worry the government!

You know something, you are being really crass and low-brow with all your paranoid rantings.

Everyone is out to ruin the world. Yeah. OK.

So what are you doing about it besides flaming bulletin boards?

Enough already!

[Aozozbag]

You know something, you are being really crass and low-brow with all your paranoid rantings.

Everyone is out to ruin the world. Yeah. OK.

So what are you doing about it besides flaming bulletin boards?

Enough already!

You're entitled to your opinion Ninjahedge but please allow others to disagree without resorting to cheap personal abuse.
I really believe we need to closely scrutinise the policies of our governments and look beyond the rhetoric. As you have no doubt picked up from recent postings there are some disturbing things happening in the UK at the moment.
Local councils inserting micro-chips in wheelie bins used for domestic rubbish - no one consulted or advised about it until a resident spotted it!
An Oyster card, used for travelling in London that also tells the authorities exactly where you've travelled and when.
DNA being retained on file even though a person is totally innocent.
1 CCTV camera for every 14 residents in the UK - thats a lot of surveillance!
This may not be happening in the US but its moving at a pace in Britain.
This isn't being paranoid, this is reality and its happening without any public debate.
So you're suggesting we just keep quiet and pretend its not happening - yea, thats real sensible!!

[scewDeasp]

Right now I'm looking at New Zealand, North West Italy, North East coast of USA (NH maybe), West coast of Canada or the BVI where I used to live for a while (co-incidently they had their first murder in seven years last week ).

New Hampshire may be a good choice for you.

[Relsenlilky]

New Hampshire may be a good choice for you.

My uncle just returned from a war memorial in Belgium where the name of one of our relatives is carved into the granite. He fought for the former but ended up the latter.

Another great uncle of mine died in his tank alongside the Americans a few days after D-Day in the Battle of Caan.

Alongside my dad, my uncle was in Germany with a rifle in his hand facing the Red Army when Dr. John Reid, a strong candidate for our next PM and prime driver behind ID cards and the surveillance state was in his university debating which form of communism was to be imposed on this country. John Reid went on to join the communist party in 1973...


As to Ninjahedges' comment, my city is one of the poorest in Europe but has made great strides in the last ten years to pull itself out of its' nosedive. Up untill very recently my business was low cost airlines and in the last five years Liverpool has gone from no internationl flights to 57 international flights, including from next year to JFK. All this progress and the thousands of jobs off the back of it were created by LCC's. Sadly, the (Labour) government have said that LCC's are damaging to the environment and they propose to tax them out of existence therefore closing down one of the biggest wealth creators in the city. Large parts of my city are plagued by low bred scum, created by poor economic conditions prevalent. You can try to contribute, do your part but when your government is against you why bother? Still, there are plenty of entrepreneurs left. The drug dealers now make their clients buy crack with their heroin. Why some have even bought several houses in my street. For cash...

[Aozenee]

You're entitled to your opinion Ninjahedge but please allow others to disagree without resorting to cheap personal abuse.
I really believe we need to closely scrutinise the policies of our governments and look beyond the rhetoric. As you have no doubt picked up from recent postings there are some disturbing things happening in the UK at the moment.
Local councils inserting micro-chips in wheelie bins used for domestic rubbish - no one consulted or advised about it until a resident spotted it!
An Oyster card, used for travelling in London that also tells the authorities exactly where you've travelled and when.
DNA being retained on file even though a person is totally innocent.
1 CCTV camera for every 14 residents in the UK - thats a lot of surveillance!
This may not be happening in the US but its moving at a pace in Britain.
This isn't being paranoid, this is reality and its happening without any public debate.
So you're suggesting we just keep quiet and pretend its not happening - yea, thats real sensible!!

Inserting micro-chips is an excellent way of understanding wastage. Its all moving towards a pay as you throw away system that will ensure more people recycle more and waste less. The benefit of this is that it helps the environment, lowers wastage, makes us more understanding of our lifestyle and should free up money for public transport and the like rather than finding new landfill sites and more rubbish trucks.

Oystercard is class - one card that allows me to travel on every mode of transport in London: its the future of payment of transport usage and is used in Hong Kong and Tokyo. The information gained is also exceptionally useful - now its possible to actually map the routes used by everyone on the network by the actual 'path' they take. This means management of the transport network can be handled to match journeys by people and not by entrances and exits at stations, buses, boats, trams, etc... which doesn't provide anywhere near to as accurate real-time and analytical information to plan upgrades, modernisation and new routes...and Oystercard has made that happen.

It is a lot, but then that probably includes say the cameras that monitor the platform and train doors at all platforms which allows train drivers to ensure people aren't stuck in the doors before they close or station staff to monitor incase someone falls onto the tracks. Considering that there are 600 heavy rail stations, thousands of platforms and a camera for each door (so upwards of 6 cameras per platform) and thats already tens of thousands of cameras. I'd also bet that the figure includes cameras in night clubs to ensure trouble starters are noticed quickly and that no drug dealing takes place. Shops, the tens of thousands of traffic cams in London alone (eg for the Congestion Charge or at all traffic junctions or speed cameras), etc....

I personally see no problem - the systems are all seperate and its very hard for the authorities to even get permission to access other networks which make up the majority of CCTV. Same for the DNA database - more success, higher successful and accurate conviction rates ensure less innocent and mistaken people end up in jail than elsewhere in the world.




All in all its a good progression for the country - its bringing in more healthy, education (and attractive) ladies and gentlemen and those that are leaving tend to be the elderly aiming for a retirement home, foreign students and gap year students returning home, and uneducated chavs and wanted criminals. No loss here marksix, but can't really say the same for your eventual destination though!

[BariGrootrego]

You're missing the point entirely nick, and I am very surprised that you can accept without question the imposition of a Police State in the UK equal to the surveillance that the Stasi had in East Germany under communism! It just proves how insidiously the governments propaganda works!

The main point I was making is that ALL this is being done WITHOUT any public debate! Parliament has never debated this.

I'd be interested to hear from our American friends how they'd react to all these state regulations.

A person in the UK was recently made into a criminal - what for? - for putting the wrong piece of rubbish in the wrong bin!
The same can happen for leaving your bin out on the wrong day, even in error.
The chip in the bin, secretly installed, was done so that eventually they would charge extra for bin collection - never mind the fact that we pay record levels of council tax already to have our bins emptied!

MI5 has almost instant records of people's travelling patterns in London, how they pay for the Oyster card, when they travel, where they travel to - of course this is all confirmed by CCTV as well.

Why should the State be allowed to hold DNA on everyone - the innocent and the guilty? Now they're suggesting taking DNA at birth!

Every email (including this one) and phone conversation is picked up and recorded by GCHQ & the US listening station in Yorkshire - why should the US have a base here listening to and recording our conversations and emails? Would the US allow the British government to set up such a facility on its soil - of course not!

[happyman]

I'd be interested to hear from our American friends how they'd react to all these state regulations.

I saw Stryker McGuire, London bureau chief for Newsweek talking about this very issue on TV today. Americans would never countenance this kind of (sinister) thing he said.

He had an interesting point on the swingeing "environmental" taxes threatened by Labour saying that the American way is not to tax their way out of a problem, rather find a real solution and that Americans would not in any case,accept taxes. The intelectual banckruptcy of the British polititcal classes in which the solution to any problem is to apply a tax contrasts sharply with that of the US.

A quote by another distinguished American journalist who lived in similar times also comes to mind:- "We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow

Don't waste your time debating with Nick. One of the depressing things about the English (and I exclude the Scots, Irish and Welsh from this statement) and one of the reasons I no longer have any qulams about quitting this Sceptred Isle is their bovine like acceptance of what is going on in this country. The great master G. Orwell had the Nick-Taylors of this world summed up perfectly when he wrote in his novel 1984:-

"Parsons was Winston's fellow employee at the Ministry of Truth. He was a fattish but active man of paralyzing stupidity, a mass of imbecile enthusiasms—one of those completely unquestioning, devoted drudges on whom, more even than on the thought police, the stability of the Party depended."

'nuff said.

[Appenianags]

Is this proof that Britain is actually heading down the path outlined in V for Vendetta? Life imitating art?

[weaddercaps]

Well said Marksix, totally agree with you.

An interesting fact about Orwell to whom you refer, his real name was BLAIR!

Perhaps thats what has inspired Tony Blair's repressive government to introduce Big Brother policies!

[NikolaAAA]

Clockwork Orange.

[gagagaridze]

Spying sucks. That is why I don't watch CBS all that much. That damn, eyeball logo, spooks the crap outta me......

[oronozopiy]

Oh PLEASE, grow up people!

They've caught a lot of nasty crims with those cameras. What's wrong with them?

You have nothign tofd ear fromt hem unless you are a criminal. I cannot see any possible reasonable opposition to crime prevention, other than the fact that excessive relaince of negative (protective) security is both caused by and in turn reduces the propensity for positive security (going after the mofos).