[Opperioav]

I didn't know many protesters here in the South but my husband met a few. One was also introduced to my husband's fists after spitting on my husband. Thankfully though, the South has never been like the East and West Coasts, where the drugs of the sixties, "free love" and war protesters were most prominant.
Race and abortion were only part of the reason for the switch. You have to look at the overall picture.
Some people will always balk at a President who is religious. Remember how many people were worried about putting a Catholic in the White House? Now most folks believe that JFK was the best thing since sliced bread. Some didn't like Jimmy Carter because he was "too religious" when in the end, he was nothing more than a lame duck and religion didn't even come into play.

If you'll stop trying to insinuate that one spitting protestor represents the millions of patriotic americans who agreed the war was an abominable crime against our soldiers, then I won't try to claim that everybody who votes republican believes in burning foreign babies with napalm. How's that for a deal?

I wasn't aware that drug use is any less in the south than it is anywhere else?

I do remember the concerns about Kenedy's faith. I also remember that those concerns were most pronounced in the bible belt.

So it looks like you agree with me that the white southern migration from the democratic to republican parties started with the civil rights movement?

I don't really remember any democratic platforms that contained a "free love" plank. I do remember when (democrat) Richard Daly told his cops to beat the shit out of the protestors in chicago in '68. If the white south was really all about hating protestors and "free love" hippies, that should have cemented them to the democratic party for years.
Oh that's right - I forgot - white southerners were busy voting for George Wallace for president that year.

[Roker]

The whole "Christian Totalitarianism" is but one part of one of the latest hot button wedge issues. There is very little substance to it, but the media and certain partisans like to blow it up to seem like a huge thing.

Not much will rally a bunch of secular liberals more than the idea that "Conservative Christians are trying to turn America into a theocracy!", just like not much will rally a bunch of conservative Christians than "Liberals are trying to destroy Christianity!". Of course, neither statement is true.

There have been many small events that could hint to such a thing, such as the intelligent design debate, the removal of the ten commandments from court houses and the claimed "secularization" of Christmas. However, these issues are so few and far between that they can hardly be called a mass movement by any side of the spectrum. The whole reason why they make the news is because such things are so rare, or that they are absurd to the point of being newsworthy.

Most liberals respect Christianity and are more than happy to allow it to flourish wherever it may. Most Conservatives respect the constitution and understand that people should be free to practice what they want and not have the government endorse one religion over any other (or lack of).

I'd guess that the majority of Americans, liberal or conservative, are more interested in preserving the status quo, rather than destroying Christianity, or establishing a Christian country.

[seicslybearee]

If you'll stop trying to insinuate that one spitting protestor represents the millions of patriotic americans who agreed the war was an abominable crime against our soldiers, then I won't try to claim that everybody who votes republican believes in burning foreign babies with napalm. How's that for a deal?

I wasn't aware that drug use is any less in the south than it is anywhere else?

I do remember the concerns about Kenedy's faith. I also remember that those concerns were most pronounced in the bible belt.

So it looks like you agree with me that the white southern migration from the democratic to republican parties started with the civil rights movement?

I don't really remember any democratic platforms that contained a "free love" plank. I do remember when (democrat) Richard Daly told his cops to beat the shit out of the protestors in chicago in '68. If the white south was really all about hating protestors and "free love" hippies, that should have cemented them to the democratic party for years.
Oh that's right - I forgot - white southerners were busy voting for George Wallace for president that year.

I've never said that all protesters were the same, however there were many out there spitting on soldiers, calling them baby killers, blocking the soldiers at airports, etc. Do you think it was happening mostly in the south? Hell no! It was going on it counter-culture cities like San Francisco.
The use of LSD was prevalent in the northeast and west coasts (remember that it got it's start at Harvard). It was the hippies that were using it and face it, the south didn't attract near as many hippies as the east and west coasts.
As I said, there will always be someone that doesn't like a presidential candidate's religion.
I've already said that the civil rights movement was PART of the reason for the migration.
The hippies and protesters took to the Democratic party, regardless of what Daley was doing.
It wasn't just the south voting for Wallace. Remember that he won the primaries in Indiana, Maryland, Michigan and Wisconsin.

[bortycuz]

I've never said that all protesters were the same, however there were many out there spitting on soldiers, calling them baby killers, blocking the soldiers at airports, etc. Do you think it was happening mostly in the south? Hell no! It was going on it counter-culture cities like San Francisco.
The use of LSD was prevalent in the northeast and west coasts (remember that it got it's start at Harvard). It was the hippies that were using it and face it, the south didn't attract near as many hippies as the east and west coasts.
As I said, there will always be someone that doesn't like a presidential candidate's religion.
I've already said that the civil rights movement was PART of the reason for the migration.
The hippies and protesters took to the Democratic party, regardless of what Daley was doing.
It wasn't just the south voting for Wallace. Remember that he won the primaries in Indiana, Maryland, Michigan and Wisconsin.

Your insistance that "drugs' are somehow a problem that belongs to the coasts seems strange to me. Drug (and alcohol) problems are spread across the country and I can't see what they have to do with white southerners leaving the democratic party to vote republican.
Wallace ran on his own American Independant Party ticket in 68 and won Arkansas, Louisiana, Alabama and Georgia. In 72 he ran in the dem primary and won one northern state - michigan - and a handful of southern states. I believe he won every southern primary that he ran in before getting shot. Significantly, his absence in 72 changed the result from a hairsbreadth win for the republicans in 68 to one of the most lopsided victories ever in 72.

[reervieltnope]

Your insistance that "drugs' are somehow a problem that belongs to the coasts seems strange to me. Drug (and alcohol) problems are spread across the country and I can't see what they have to do with white southerners leaving the democratic party to vote republican.
Wallace ran on his own American Independant Party ticket in 68 and won Arkansas, Louisiana, Alabama and Georgia. In 72 he ran in the dem primary and won one northern state - michigan - and a handful of southern states. I believe he won every southern primary that he ran in before getting shot. Significantly, his absence in 72 changed the result from a hairsbreadth win for the republicans in 68 to one of the most lopsided victories ever in 72.

Can you not follow this? Drugs were a problem on the east and west coasts in the 60's which is what I had originally stated. No where did I say that that's the case today.
Unless you count Maryland as a southern state (which NO real southern does), then Wallace won two northern states in the 1972 primaries.
It was the 1964 Democratic primaries in Indiana, Wisconsin and Maryland when Wallace received around 1/3 of the votes.
BTW, southern presidential candidates have almost always done well in the South.

[TimEricsson]

When exactly did the right wing goal lose sight of a "small federal government" and replace that idea with a Christian Theocracy? ....

They didn't.

[NEronchik]

Can you not follow this? Drugs were a problem on the east and west coasts in the 60's which is what I had originally stated. No where did I say that that's the case today.
Unless you count Maryland as a southern state (which NO real southern does), then Wallace won two northern states in the 1972 primaries.
It was the 1964 Democratic primaries in Indiana, Wisconsin and Maryland when Wallace received around 1/3 of the votes.
BTW, southern presidential candidates have almost always done well in the South.

No I really can't follow it. I have no idea what drugs have to do with this dicsusssion. I can't believe you're seriously claiming that white southerners would leave the democratic party for the republicans because kids in the sixties were taking drugs? I gave them credit for more brains than that when I claimed it was over civil rights for blacks.
I count Maryland as a southern state because it was only kept in the union by force and because Jim Crow laws prevailed there along with the rest of the south.

[DeronBoltonRen]

No I really can't follow it. I have no idea what drugs have to do with this dicsusssion. I can't believe you're seriously claiming that white southerners would leave the democratic party for the republicans because kids in the sixties were taking drugs? I gave them credit for more brains than that when I claimed it was over civil rights for blacks.
I count Maryland as a southern state because it was only kept in the union by force and because Jim Crow laws prevailed there along with the rest of the south.

One more time...real slow...Drugs were part of the moral decline taking place in America in the 1960's, along with war protesters, the burning of the American Flag, draft dodging, free love, etc. Most of those that participated in all of this were liberals and associated with the Democratic party. Put all of that together with the civil rights issue and you'll see why so many jumped ship to the Republican Party.
Those of us in the Deep South don't count Maryland as a southern state. It may be south of the Mason-Dixon line but it wasn't part of the CSA so they're Yankees to us.

[Mugflefusysef]

One more time...real slow...Drugs were part of the moral decline taking place in America in the 1960's, along with war protesters, the burning of the American Flag, draft dodging, free love, etc. Most of those that participated in all of this were liberals and associated with the Democratic party. Put all of that together with the civil rights issue and you'll see why so many jumped ship to the Republican Party.
Those of us in the Deep South don't count Maryland as a southern state. It may be south of the Mason-Dixon line but it wasn't part of the CSA so they're Yankees to us.

If I understand you, you are claiming that white southerners left the democratic party for the republicans over "moral decline"? And this despite the fact that those awful peacenik hippies (whose moral decline you seem to have so much trouble with) spent most of the sixties protesting against a democratic administration? I'm sorry but I just don't see the sense in it. You hated the hippies - the hippies hated Johnson - so you left Johnson's party for wallace and then the republicans? Something about that just doesnt add up.

I also can't believe that any adult in this country actually believes that the politicians from one party are more moral than those from the other. What tortures you must go through when you see your boys institutionalizing graft with abramoff!!

No I'm afraid my initial claim makes more sense. The one thing the hippies and the black rioters and the democrats all had in commmon (beside the fact that you joined the republicans to squash them) was support for civil rights for blacks. And the only thing that Wallace and the republicans had in commmon was that neither was associated with Johnson, the civil rights traitor. It just took until the sixties for the rest of the bible belt to folllow those pioneers Helms and Thurmond over to the republican side.

[mymnduccete]

If I understand you, you are claiming that white southerners left the democratic party for the republicans over "moral decline"? And this despite the fact that those awful peacenik hippies (whose moral decline you seem to have so much trouble with) spent most of the sixties protesting against a democratic administration? I'm sorry but I just don't see the sense in it. You hated the hippies - the hippies hated Johnson - so you left Johnson's party for wallace and then the republicans? Something about that just doesnt add up.

I also can't believe that any adult in this country actually believes that the politicians from one party are more moral than those from the other. What tortures you must go through when you see your boys institutionalizing graft with abramoff!!

No I'm afraid my initial claim makes more sense. The one thing the hippies and the black rioters and the democrats all had in commmon (beside the fact that you joined the republicans to squash them) was support for civil rights for blacks. And the only thing that Wallace and the republicans had in commmon was that neither was associated with Johnson, the civil rights traitor. It just took until the sixties for the rest of the bible belt to folllow those pioneers Helms and Thurmond over to the republican side.

I guess you'd have to be a Southerner to understand the whole picture and since you're obviously not, you'll never get it.

[egershna]

Here's a little theory I've been kicking around for the past few hours...

Let's assume that the conservatives adopted a Christian agenda during the Reagan administration. (I was just a babe at the time, so I can't be sure when, but I know that I have always associated Republicans with Christian fundamentalists, so I know it happened before I became aware of politics.) What else happened during the Reagan administration? Iran Contra. Yep, our first real step into the Middle East, the hub of Islam. Not clear? Think about it: what better way to set a prejudice for potential enemies then by pointing out they have a different religion than the majority of Americans?

Think about it. How many of you picture Islam as the peaceful religion it really is? Why do we picture Islam as a hate-spreading faith that does nothing but teach people how to kill Americans? Because thats the way they want us to think.

[highattainlet]

I guess you'd have to be a Southerner to understand the whole picture and since you're obviously not, you'll never get it.

So, any non-christian will never be able to understand the ideas of Christ?

I'm just pointing out what your saying in a way that shows how unfair a statement it truly is, so don't hate me. I'm just demonstrating the logic of the statement.

[muytreda]

So, any non-christian will never be able to understand the ideas of Christ?

I'm just pointing out what your saying in a way that shows how unfair a statement it truly is, so don't hate me. I'm just demonstrating the logic of the statement.

The comment was directed at timj219 because he couldn't seem to comprehend anything I was saying.

[JRixlcvF]

republian

[fajerdoksdsaaker]

....... It just took until the sixties for the rest of the bible belt to folllow those pioneers Helms and Thurmond over to the republican side.

This is a very simplistic view. The reality is that te GOP championed civil rights since the 60's. The 1860's: The Radical Republicans (radical = change) were the leading political force during the time of Lincoln through the Reconstruction period. With strong belief in the 1783 Constitutional language that all men are created equal, they campaigned to enhance freedom through free market economics. During this time, the northern states were majority Republican and had established a vibrant free market society. The majority Democrats in the south maintained a European model of an upper class minority supported by cheap labor of black slavery and poor whites.

In 1862 the Radical Republicans literally went to war against slavery with support of the moderate President Lincoln. After the Civil War and slavery was finally abolished, the southern Democrats kept the lower classes in line by limiting civil rights. The strong Republican majority in congress overrode a veto from Democrat President Andrew Johnson for the first time in US history and passed the Civil Rights Act of 1868. The racist Johnson then refused to enforce it.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights act of 1875, which was struck down by the Democrat majority Supreme Court in 1883. Republicans tried again in 1957, watering down a Civil Rights Act to overcome stiff Democrat opposition. 1960 brought a third Republican Civil Rights Act, pushed through after nearly a week long Democrat filibuster.

President John Kennedy became the first Democratic President to embrace the conservative ideals of the Radical Republicans. Democratic President Lyndon Johnson, who himself grew up impoverished in the South, pushed his party further, and supported the Republican sponsored 1964 Civil Rights Act. This Act was essentially a re-writing of the 1875 legislation, and was passed against chief opponents Albert Gore Sr. and a 14 hour filibuster by former Klansman Robert Byrd, still a Democrat senator to this day. Johnson was instrumental in strengthening the Act in 1968.

After loosing a 181 year long battle against the conservative free market ideals of the Radical Republicans, the Liberal Democrats have changed tactics. They have stolen the entrepreneurial spirit of the African Americans and poor whites by creating programs of entitlements, preferential treatment and dead end government employment.

Our current President George W. Bush has defined this new Democratic tactic as “soft bigotry.”

[toopyimport]

Here's a little theory I've been kicking around for the past few hours...

Let's assume that the conservatives adopted a Christian agenda during the Reagan administration. (I was just a babe at the time, so I can't be sure when, but I know that I have always associated Republicans with Christian fundamentalists, so I know it happened before I became aware of politics.) What else happened during the Reagan administration? Iran Contra. Yep, our first real step into the Middle East, the hub of Islam. Not clear? Think about it: what better way to set a prejudice for potential enemies then by pointing out they have a different religion than the majority of Americans?

Think about it. How many of you picture Islam as the peaceful religion it really is? Why do we picture Islam as a hate-spreading faith that does nothing but teach people how to kill Americans? Because thats the way they want us to think.

Your theory ignores the 200 years of history before Reagan. You should read up on it and re-think your theory so you don't look so pitiful next time.

[bikersfan]

This is a very simplistic view. The reality is that te GOP championed civil rights since the 60's. The 1860's:

You're mostly right as far as you go except that you leave out the fact that those democrats who fought against black equality are the very same people who deserted the dems (first for their own third parties then for the republicans) when the mainstream of the democratic party got behing the civil rights movement

[pepBarihepe]

You're mostly right as far as you go except that you leave out the fact that those democrats who fought against black equality are the very same people who deserted the dems (first for their own third parties then for the republicans) when the mainstream of the democratic party got behing the civil rights movement

They were idiots for their bigotry, and idiots again for thinking that joining the GOP would help their cause. Or perhaps you don't know the whole story. Either way, they're a small minority, and we'll take votes wherever we can get 'em.

The ones you need to worry about are the smart ones like "Sheets" Byrd. He's done more damage to blacks by his liberal views than all of his Clan buddies combined. Plus, Byrd's got loads more money and power, all kinds of buildings named for him and shit, and can laugh at the fool blacks who think he's doing them good.

Affirmative Action has decimated black families. About 2/3 of black families have one female parent, and something like 32% of black males will end up in prison.

West Virginia is still the poorest and worst educated of all states (probably the whitest, BTW), and those dummies keep voting for Sheets because of all the Pork he brings in.

[Extipletape]

I don't know man. I mean, if you look at abortion, the gay civil rights movement, and separation of church and state (the extreme cases in particular). You can understand why some Christians are shifting to the right. Even during the last election, I knew some folks who were voting Republican for the first time.

It seems to be a gradual process with many seculars going to the left and quite a few Christians going to the right. But if you ask me, many Christians will never even think about going to the left mainly because of abortion. Even if they aren't crazy about going Republican, they still find the abortion issue as something that they won't compromise on at all.

[antilt]

They were idiots for their bigotry, and idiots again for thinking that joining the GOP would help their cause. Or perhaps you don't know the whole story. Either way, they're a small minority, and we'll take votes wherever we can get 'em.

The ones you need to worry about are the smart ones like "Sheets" Byrd. He's done more damage to blacks by his liberal views than all of his Clan buddies combined. Plus, Byrd's got loads more money and power, all kinds of buildings named for him and shit, and can laugh at the fool blacks who think he's doing them good.

Affirmative Action has decimated black families. About 2/3 of black families have one female parent, and something like 32% of black males will end up in prison.

West Virginia is still the poorest and worst educated of all states (probably the whitest, BTW), and those dummies keep voting for Sheets because of all the Pork he brings in.

I dearly wish Byrd had followed the rest of them to the republican side. The fact that he's considerred a respected member of the party makes me gag just like the time when they let sharpton talk at the convention.

And you're partly right about the white southerners not getting what they wanted from the national republican leadership. At least you were right before w came along. Nixon, Reagan and bush senior played bait and switch on them, promising socialy reactionary poilicies and delivering favors to big business and the 2% instead. With w in charge we get it all. The traditionally republican pro business pro wealth agenda but with candy for the fundamentalists too. Now we have socially conservative courts, national level politicians who lobby for creationism and prayer in the schools, anti gay initiatives integrated into the platform of the party, the choking off of affirmative action for blacks, and religious organizations receiving government money.

I don't know if they would have gotten those things by staying with the dems or not. I guess we'll never know.