[Mappaindy]

Geert Wilders is a BFF of Pamela Geller (of anti-mosque fame), and lavishes praise on her latest manifesto:

The Post-American Presidency: The Obama Administration's War on America

“This book is a chilling analysis of how the policy of President Barack Obama is chipping away at the very foundation of America's leading role in the world. It exposes his philosophy of near universal 'moral equivalency': a philosophy that is a dead ringer for the cultural relativism that has been poisoning Europe for the past decades. America is the last man standing and it is vital that the people of Europe adopt the attitude of proud American citizens and learn that it is not shameful to be proud of one's heritage. This book is incredibly fascinating and at the same time holds a deeply disturbing message we should all take to heart.”

-- Geert Wilders, Dutch MP

[wbeachcomber]

What Christianity are you talking about? Because it's clearly not the same one described by history.

I doubt that Ablarc is talking about the Middle-Ages.

In Europe 2010, where the overwhelming majority of citizens declare themselves Christian, where various countries have Christianity as the State Religion ( Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Finland, England) human rights and the tradition of tolerance do indeed prevail.

Now tell us about the Muslim countries.

[myspacecoo]

“This book is a chilling analysis of how the policy of President Barack Obama is chipping away at the very foundation of America's leading role in the world. It exposes his philosophy of near universal 'moral equivalency': a philosophy that is a dead ringer for the cultural relativism that has been poisoning Europe for the past decades.

^I don't know about that... but I do believe that societies that have worked for decades for the equality of men and women, gay rights, abolition of the death penalty, accountable justice systems, workers rights, universal health care, free college education, etc and etc.... are indeed societies superior to those without.

[MinisuipGaicai]

In Europe 2010, where the overwhelming majority of citizens declare themselves Christian

Maybe that's the case in Italy, but if you would ask here, most people would say they are not religious at all.

But indeed, nowadays most Christians here are quite tolerant to other religions. Most, but not all. Wilders has the support of one other party, the SGP. An orthodox protestant party with just two seats, but that could be enough to give a center-right coalition a more comforting majority. This party is also a bit controversial. Not only are they against equal rights for other religions, they are also against equal rights for women. Even more specific: they are against women in politics, so they simply can't join the party. Women should stay at home and raise kids, that's it. And very important, they should not be allowed to wear trousers. Sounds familiar from another religion. Nice guys, those Christians. And those by far outnumber the orthodox Muslims here.

Now tell us about the Muslim countries.

Why should we lower us to their levels?

At the moment it is unclear what the status of the negotiations for the new coalition is. There were more important things going on in the world. Damn those Spanish...

[bashansasasasa]

"...but if you would ask here, most people would say they are not religious at all."

Reread what I wrote.

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SPG: a fringe Christian group as nutty as Islam.

Nutty... but maybe, all things considered, not quite as nutty as Islam.

----

"Why should we lower us to their levels?"

We certainly should not.

(BTW, "lower us to their levels" would indicate that you believe they are inferior.)

[giturbewan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_...r_%28author%29

[Lypepuddyu]

The Dutch tradition of tolerance wins.

Very Christian of it.

Yes! In all the best ways.

[Gastonleruanich]

"...but if you would ask here, most people would say they are not religious at all."

Reread what I wrote.

Probably something is lost in my translation?

SPG: a fringe Christian group as nutty as Islam.

Nutty... but maybe, all things considered, not quite as nutty as Islam.

What makes them not as nutty as the average Muslim? Otherwise go and have a look in our Dutch bible belt. In that region they are about as tolerant as the average Islamic country. Better don't go there on a Sunday, even their website is off-line then.

"Why should we lower us to their levels?"

We certainly should not.

Well, the PVV thinks otherwise. At least, I consider basically banning the Islam quite a move in that direction.

(BTW, "lower us to their levels" would indicate that you believe they are inferior.)

That wasn't really how I meant it, but in some aspects, they are, no doubt about it. More specifically, we are way more tolerant to other cultures and religions. Importing other cultures also means importing culture-related problems. We have become what we are now by handling those problems, not by keeping the cultures outside, not by banning those cultures.

[P1international]

Did you see about the latest Catholic Church scandals in Belgium. Did you read the Churches reaction to the Belgium athourities?

If right now folks in Belgium wanted a moratorium on new Catholic Seminaries or Churches I would understand. And I'm Catholic.

Here in Italy with so many Imams of the Mosques of major cities expelled for hate talk and calls for jihad... I can understand wanting a moratorium on new mosques. (It is funny because the Imam of my town is now in jail with a 10 year sentance for beating his wife. He was turned in by her.)



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For the record: although IMHO this Geert fellow has some things right, he obviously has a lot wrong.

Clobber me but...let me put out this idea: perhaps it is better to give these far-right groups representation. The real workings of government and politics I think moderates them. If he is getting nearly 25 percent of the vote he must be dealt with...otherwise it will be much higher next time. Our Northern Leauge has representation but has only about 10 percent of the vote. Less than in most of Europe. I think having them in the government changes them.Look at Fini... now considered moderate and actually liberal on many issues.He is certainly mainstream now.

[DoterrFor]

^ Counterexample: In Israel, right-wing groups inside the governing coalition cause all sorts of mischief and chaos. Best not to let them in.

I suspect that the anti-immigration parties are gaining mostly because the shaky economy has people feeling resentful. Will things simmer down once the economy improves? I'd bet on it.